Gotham - Season 1

[DWF]

And really Batman hasn't stopped crime or lowered it in Gotham, there's a seeming never ending stream of crime and criminals.

Depends on the iteration. In Nolan's TDK it's been established that Batman had indeed made a huge difference. Remember that scene where the Joker mocks the crime bosses for meeting in broad daylight?

@Christopher - you're right. Over the years I started seeing Nolanverse as the definitive version of Batman, unintentionally (and perhaps unfairly) disregarding all the others (especially the trashy 60's tv show, which I loved as a kid).

In TDK Maroni told Batman that the criminals were more afraid of the Joker than Batman because Batman wasn't a killer. And in the end it was the Dent act which was based on a lie that took the criminals off the streets and madea nice little army for Bane once he engineered their escape.

Also in TDK Bruce was going to retire and let Harvey Dent take over, as though the need for Batman no longer existed.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

So Batman didn't make a dent in the crime rate? ba-dum-tish

 

[Captain Craig]

The best parts of Gotham remain the storylines bout the mob featuring Falcone, Maroni, Penguin and Fish. I keep thinking Tony Zucco is due to appear as well eventually. These elements work well cause they fit well with the comic lore.

The narrative with Bruce and Alfred also feels quite "natural" and right based on the comic lore as well.

The forced parts of ham fisting Batman's other villains into the show so, so long before they ever really should be developing is something of a drag on the narrative. Poison Ivy, Black Mask, Scarecrow for starters.

 

[The Old Mixer]

The Flying Doucheba...er, Graysons!

 

[Samurai8472]

That kid has to be the future joker......

 

[Christopher]

That kid has to be the future joker......

Yeah, I thought they were going to be more subtle or indirect about it. I forgot that Bruno Heller doesn't do subtle.

Also, Jim Gordon is responsible for Dick Grayson's very existence. Again, not subtle.

I was impressed by Jada Pinkett-Smith here. She did a terrific job with Fish's speeches rallying her "family" and laying down the law to her abductors. It's the first time Fish has really come across as impressive rather than cartoony. And that's surprising given how much the circus plot embraced the cartoony.

And man, Morena Baccarin is gorgeous. I haven't seen her play a character this cheerful and enthusiastic before, and I really like it.

 

[DWF]

The Flying Doucheba...er, Graysons!

Their son will be a real Dick.

 

[Gryffindorian]

Madam Xanadu?

 

[coolghoul]

And man, Morena Baccarin is gorgeous. I haven't seen her play a character this cheerful and enthusiastic before, and I really like it.

She really is...

I got to wondering... Almost no comic storyline that *I* recall has Jim Gordon getting pally with Leslie Thompkins, is there? I remember there were some were Leslie and Alfred got together. But not Jim and Leslie.

Also - did I miss Blackmask? Who was he? I think we've seen Zsasz, Riddler, Penguin, Two-face, Catwoman, Joker, Scarecrow and maybe even the Professor Pyg guy ( I really don't like Grant Morrison's additions to the Rogue Gallery - tho' I like Damien Wayne). Who else have we seen? Fish/Butch are new to the Bat-universe, right?

 

[Guy Gardener]

You know, I think it was nice of the writers to allow Barbara to spend some quality time with people her own age.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Weird seeing Ian from Shameless as the proto-Joker, the poor kid's always playing characters that are nuts. Still not sure what to make of this whole Fish subplot but I agree Jada is playing it well FWIW. I wasn't expecting the turn with the kids, I'm curious where that will go. Throw in the Grayson's as bonus fan service and Zsasz and the episode was pretty packed.

 

[1001001]

This episode seemed a little off to me. Especially Barbara adjusting immediately to two teenaged girls squatting in her apartment.

Organ-harvesting pirates?



Gordon settling the feud seemed rushed at the end, but at least the couple will have a nice story to tell their son....

 

[Greg Cox]

Is the Punisher insane?

Same origin story.

Mostly.

Except that he wears white gloves when he's beating people.

There was a BATMAN/PUNISHER crossover several years ago that postulated that the difference between Bruce Wayne and Frank Castle is the age at which they traumatized.

Frank's family was murdered when he was adult, so he reacts like a troubled, vengeful adult would: by getting big guns and shooting as many bad guys as he can.

But Bruce lost his family as a child, so Batman is more of a child's idea of an avenging angel, complete with disguises, capes, elaborate gadgets and toys, a secret clubhouse, etc.

An interesting take on things.

 

[Christopher]

The difference between Batman and the Punisher is that the Punisher wants revenge while Batman wants justice. In other words, the Punisher wants to kill people, while Batman wants to prevent anyone from being killed. They couldn't be more opposite.

I got to wondering... Almost no comic storyline that *I* recall has Jim Gordon getting pally with Leslie Thompkins, is there? I remember there were some were Leslie and Alfred got together. But not Jim and Leslie.

This is a completely new interpretation, as far as I'm aware. Leslie has always been a character most strongly associated with Bruce Wayne and/or Batman. This is the first time she's been linked with Gordon. I don't think "Lee" has even met Bruce yet.

Also - did I miss Blackmask? Who was he?

There was that episode with Todd Stashwick as Richard Sionis, the corporate guy who was making his employees fight for promotions, and who fetishized masks. I'm guessing he was meant to be the father of Roman Sionis/Black Mask.

I think we've seen Zsasz, Riddler, Penguin, Two-face, Catwoman, Joker, Scarecrow and maybe even the Professor Pyg guy ( I really don't like Grant Morrison's additions to the Rogue Gallery - tho' I like Damien Wayne). Who else have we seen? Fish/Butch are new to the Bat-universe, right?

Fish and Butch are new, yes. As for Pyg, we've seen one or two people in pig masks, but they were associated with other villains, so I don't know about that.

We've also seen the Electrocutioner, a minor Batman rogue in the comics. And one of the people he experimented on was Amygdala. The Dollmaker was referenced in episode 2 and is slated to return. The female assassin who went after Selina and Bruce was evidently based on Copperhead, according to Wikipedia. And of course various other non-supervillain antagonists like Falcone, Maroni, and Flass.

Plus Milo Ventimiglia is slated to appear as a character based on a comics villain called Ogre. I'm unfamiliar with that character.

This episode seemed a little off to me. Especially Barbara adjusting immediately to two teenaged girls squatting in her apartment.

Well, she was pretty clearly wasted when she found them, so that would explain it.

 

[JD]

That stuff with Barbara and the girls was a little odd. I guess she must have figured they were harmless and let them stay.
I was thinking they just need to bring in a young Haryleen Quinzel and we could have a Gotham City Sirens story.

I got a kick out of the stuff with the circus. The Grayson stuff was fun, and I liked the Jerome story. They keep talking about the saga of the Joker beginning, so it sounds like there's a pretty good chance we haven't seen the last of him.

Fish taking over the prisoners was pretty good.

Poor Butch, Zasz did quite a number on him. I wonder if he really is that damaged, or it was all an act to try to get close to Penguin.

I got a kick out of the scene with Bruce and the Wayne Enterprises board, I don't think they were expecting what happened.

 

[Christopher]

I got a kick out of the stuff with the circus. The Grayson stuff was fun, and I liked the Jerome story. They keep talking about the saga of the Joker beginning, so it sounds like there's a pretty good chance we haven't seen the last of him.

Honestly, I'm not sure it was a good idea to bring in the proto-Joker this early. What can they do with him from here? If he's already a murderous psychopath with a twisted sense of humor, where else can they take him as a character? Plus, giving the Joker a name and an origin at all is kind of demystifying.

 

[sojourner]

The Joker already had an origin story in the comics- he was the Red Hood. Who coincidentally will be showing up this season.

 

[CorporalClegg]

I think Jerome was a red herring. At least I hope it is.

I mean why waste the reveal of one of the most popular and influential villains in the history of fiction on such a mediocre mid-season episode?

 

[Servo]

The Joker already had an origin story in the comics- he was the Red Hood. Who coincidentally will be showing up this season.

In fact, next week's episode is called "Red Hood". The synopsis for which reads...

Spoiler: Pretty damn big spoiler

Jim Gordon and Detective Bullock investigate the Red Hood gang, who have been terrorizing the city with the help of Jerome.

Pretty solid episode all round this week, I thought. I loved the kid playing Jerome. That scene where he went from snivelling kid to psychopath was great fun to watch. Clearly they're going all out with the idea that he's a young Joker (especially with all the "No Joke" promos), so will be good to see more of him and how he develops.

Loved Fish in this too. The scene where she lays down the law to Schmidt was probably the best Fish scene in the series to date. Did more to cement her as a charismatic, calculating leader than any of her scenes at the club. The part where she honoured the guy's sacrifice was a nice touch.

I've wished for a while now that more DC shows would crossover, to create a shared universe, like the MCU but on TV, so I don't mind admitting that the giddy fanboy part of me kinda hoped that Cicero would turn out to be Faust.

 

[Reverend]

Not sure how I feel about this one. To me the idea that Joker's backstory should be vague and mysterious has always been somewhat sacrosanct. This origin felt very Rorchach-esq.

Honestly I'd rather they'd developed the Flying Grayson side of things more, since we know that story will end in tragedy.