Which statement by a Trek actor/creator annoyed you the most?

[BillJ]

Rick Berman was an excellent producer. He supervised an operation that, at its peak, encompassed the simultaneous production of two SFX-heavy weekly TV series and one feature film. The fact that production always moved smoothly along, and that episodes and movies always came out on time and usually under budget, proves that he was very good at that part of his job.

But he had the creative ability of a cheese log.

The best Star Trek produced on Berman's watch happened when someone like Michael Piller or Ira Steven Behr was overseeing the creative side of things. The more involved Berman got creatively, the worse the end result usually was.

Brannon Braga was great at coming up with trippy, high-concept sci-fi ideas. But he sucked at creating and developing characters. If he had a writing partner like Ron Moore to pick up the slack in that area, then all was well. But when his writing "partner" was Rick Berman (and I put the word "partner" in quotes because Berman was actually his boss, so it wasn't exactly a partnership) well, that was a recipe for disaster.

I think what everyone would have preferred was to have a writer-producer with strong creative abilities in Star Trek's drivers' seat.

All that being said, my answer to the question posed by the thread title is: anything that comes out of Richard Arnold's mouth. I really despise that guy.

This.

 

[Cyke101]

Then when Berman was finally getting his name on scripts, the franchise fell in the toilet.

Only in the view of some people, what would you have preferred? The franchise have remain under the control of drugged-up, stroke victim Roddenberry?

Please.

Under Berman (or B&B) Trek flourished, there was chaff along with the wheat, but a body of work that included some of the most fantastic Trek ever produce came from the house of Berman.

You're misunderstanding me. I didn't have a problem with him as a producer, and have always given him credit for keeping the franchise running as long as he did. When I say "getting his name on scripts", I'm referring to his creative talent as a writer, and the majority of his writing credits was on ENT. His talent as a writer was far below his talent as a producer.

Something has to be said about the difference between a creator and an administrator in that regard. Very often in Hollywood, those are two different paths with different training and different experience. Those paths often converge, yes, but it's usually a creator that turns into an administrator (like Ron Howard); administrators who turn into creators tend be more bureaucratic, like meddling studio execs.

That's not to say that an administrator can't be a good creator, but I really don't think Berman fits into that category, either. I think GeorgeKirk's post is spot on -- let the creatives make the content and let the administrators handle the business end. They both need each other, after all.

 

[BillJ]

That's not to say that an administrator can't be a good creator, but I really don't think Berman fits into that category, either. I think GeorgeKirk's post is spot on -- let the creatives make the content and let the administrators handle the business end. They both need each other, after all.

If you need someone to hire the right people for a TV show, and come in on time and budget plus hire good creative people, I'm pretty sure Rick Berman is on a very short list of good people to do that.

But I don't want him anywhere near a typewriter or word processor.

 

[Cyke101]

That's not to say that an administrator can't be a good creator, but I really don't think Berman fits into that category, either. I think GeorgeKirk's post is spot on -- let the creatives make the content and let the administrators handle the business end. They both need each other, after all.

If you need someone to hire the right people for a TV show, and come in on time and budget plus hire good creative people, I'm pretty sure Rick Berman is on a very short list of good people to do that.

Fully agreed. For the most part, very few of the (primary) casting/writing/directing hires have been misses, and they produced great work that makes us keep coming back on a weekly basis.

But I don't want him anywhere near a typewriter or word processor.

Well, maybe a word processor so that he can report to the studio execs and send memos, but keep him out of the writer's room for sure!

 

[137th Gebirg]

Rick Berman was an excellent producer. He supervised an operation that, at its peak, encompassed the simultaneous production of two SFX-heavy weekly TV series and one feature film. The fact that production always moved smoothly along, and that episodes and movies always came out on time and usually under budget, proves that he was very good at that part of his job.

But he had the creative ability of a cheese log.

The best Star Trek produced on Berman's watch happened when someone like Michael Piller or Ira Steven Behr was overseeing the creative side of things. The more involved Berman got creatively, the worse the end result usually was.

Brannon Braga was great at coming up with trippy, high-concept sci-fi ideas. But he sucked at creating and developing characters. If he had a writing partner like Ron Moore to pick up the slack in that area, then all was well. But when his writing "partner" was Rick Berman (and I put the word "partner" in quotes because Berman was actually his boss, so it wasn't exactly a partnership) well, that was a recipe for disaster.

I think what everyone would have preferred was to have a writer-producer with strong creative abilities in Star Trek's drivers' seat.

All that being said, my answer to the question posed by the thread title is: anything that comes out of Richard Arnold's mouth. I really despise that guy.

This.

QFT, agreed!

I would amend this by including another of Berman's great rectal-cranial inversion moments when he realized fan enthusiasm was switching directly towards Manny Coto in Enterprise's final season, who made an arguably valiant and semi-successful attempt at knocking down the wall to escape the corner in which the franchise was painted by B&B. When Berman in an interview blurted out "This is NOT the 'Manny Coto Show'", in response to negative fan attitudes towards him, it was painfully evident at that point that he was not interested in making good Trek, but satisfying his own ego and prolonging a paycheck. Coto was a viable threat to both of those things.

As far as actors are concerned (from modern Trek), I think Garrett Wang and Robert Beltran were probably the most annoying. Between the phoned-in performances, unprofessional airing of the set's dirty laundry and whiney entitlement attitude about not being allowed to direct episodes, I got pretty fed up with that whole routine. Pretty much soured me on the whole Voyager show, along with some abysmal episodes.

 

[Cyke101]

I would amend this by including another of Berman's great rectal-cranial inversion moments when he realized fan enthusiasm was switching directly towards Manny Coto in Enterprise's final season, who made an arguably valiant and semi-successful attempt at knocking down the wall to escape the corner in which the franchise was painted by B&B. When Berman in an interview blurted out "This is NOT the 'Manny Coto Show'", in response to negative fan attitudes towards him, it was painfully evident at that point that he was not interested in making good Trek, but satisfying his own ego and prolonging a paycheck. Coto was a viable threat to both of those things.

It's kind of weird considering that Berman hired Coto in the first place, one of the best hires he had made. Whatever fan reaction there would be, you'd think he'd take pride in making one heck of a choice, plus the added relief that this particular hire would lighten his workload considerably.

As far as actors are concerned (from modern Trek), I think Garrett Wang and Robert Beltran were probably the most annoying. Between the phoned-in performances, unprofessional airing of the set's dirty laundry and whiney entitlement attitude about not being allowed to direct episodes, I got pretty fed up with that whole routine. Pretty much soured me on the whole Voyager show, along with some abysmal episodes.

Not to turn this into a Voyager thread, but I tend to cut Beltran some slack. His primary complaint was that you've got this very skilled, very charismatic ensemble devoting more time to technobabble and "Let's just say..." rather than really showing off their acting chops. Indeed, much of the Voyager alumni like Mulgrew, Ryan, and Picardo keep getting regular (and critically) lauded screen work, while Beltran himself consistently gets great reviews for his stage work; Dawson and McNeill as well are up there with Frakes in terms of directing careers.

To me a large part of that is that it was mandated by the higher ups. A director or writer tends to encourage more variety in their actors' performances, but Berman saw a formula that made money and ordered his actors to stick to that formula; in a way, a form of micromanagement.

Now Wang -- sheesh, don't get me started.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Beltran got a bit of a raw deal, from what I understand. I heard that he took the VOY gig mainly to work with Geneviève Bujold. He signed a seven-year contract, and then she was gone in less than a week. I'd be pissed if I was in his shoes, too.

 

[Melakon]

Beltran could have asked to be written out of the show if he was that unhappy and willing to give up the salary. Prior to Voyager, his biggest claim to fame had been as the title character in Eating Raoul 13 years earlier, though he'd been working steadily.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Beltran could have asked to be written out of the show if he was that unhappy and willing to give up the salary. Prior to Voyager, his biggest claim to fame had been as the title character in Eating Raoul 13 years earlier, though he'd been working steadily.

How do we know that he didn't and they refused to release him from his contract? If I was Berman, Piller, or Taylor, I'd be really reluctant to let my second lead go right after losing my lead actress.

 

[Melakon]

As sympathetic as I am for actors as a rule, I have trouble with providing sympathy for their problems when they're earning more in a week than less successful actors earn in a year.

 

[Cyke101]

As sympathetic as I am for actors as a rule, I have trouble with providing sympathy for their problems when they're earning more in a week than less successful actors earn in a year.

Money and fame are not the answers to all of life's problems (after all, the wise man who said "More money, more problems" was shot and killed), but Beltran seems much more satisfied with his work these days, though I'm sure he's earning less than his Voyager days. In any sense, there still seems to be a happy ending for him, but he did have to work at turning his satisfaction around.

 

[Melakon]

I thought his work was fairly good throughout the show, despite problems he might have had with that week's scripts. Though that's why he got paid that kind of money.

 

[BillJ]

I never had too much of an issue with Beltran, I thought the writing for the character was atrocious though. Wang, on the other hand, was a douche and should've been written out of the show instead of Jennifer Lien.

 

[Cyke101]

I never had too much of an issue with Beltran, I thought the writing for the character was atrocious though. Wang, on the other hand, was a douche and should've been written out of the show instead of Jennifer Lien.

Damn you, People Magazine!

(About how Wang was named one of People's 50 Most Beautiful People and I came in at #51. Again.)

 

[JD5000]

He's no Takei. As a 100% straight white guy, I have no problem saying that George is a beautiful man. Wang can hang, but Takei takes it.

Work on your cheekbones, Cyke.

 

[Maurice]

Beltran could have asked to be written out of the show if he was that unhappy and willing to give up the salary. Prior to Voyager, his biggest claim to fame had been as the title character in Eating Raoul 13 years earlier, though he'd been working steadily.

How do we know that he didn't and they refused to release him from his contract? If I was Berman, Piller, or Taylor, I'd be really reluctant to let my second lead go right after losing my lead actress.

Bailing on a contract can get you blackballed. They don't call it a "breach" for nothing.

 

[JD5000]

If you went to a bar with Garrett, would you be his 'Wangman'?

 

[137th Gebirg]

Ewwwwww...

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

...and there it is, a brand new low.

 

[JD5000]

Thank you, thank you.