Open Letter to NASA/Library of Congress Symposium on Astrophysics

[I amnot Herbert]

Apollo 14 astronaut Dr. Edgar Mitchell and the Hon. Paul T. Hellyer former Canadian Minister of Defence, along with colleagues Professor Bill Wickersham and ZNN news director Victor Viggiani, have co-signed an Open Letter critique to the NASA/Library of Congress Symposium on Astrophysics on ET life and its host Dr. Steven Dick. The symposium was held in Washington DC at the Library of Congress Sept 18-19, 2014."

"This list includes such dignitaries as NASA Apollo 14 astronaut Dr. Edgar Mitchell, former Governor of Arizona Fife Symington, former FAA Senior administrator John Callahan, the late former NASA astronaut Dr. Brian O’Leary, the late NASA astronaut Col. Gordon Cooper, former UK Chief of Defence Staff Admiral Lord Hill-Norton, former White House Chief of Staff under President Clinton attorney John Podesta and a host of other professionals. The specific testimony of these individuals is only one measure of the public record on this matter."

“CONCLUSION: The discovery, presence and public revelation of sentient Extraterrestrial life and the vehicles that appear to manifest this presence is the greatest story in the history of humanity. All of the available documentation indisputably suggests the government of the United States, is in fact, withholding this information from its citizens and the citizens of the world.”


IMHO, it doesn't get much more scientific than this... this is a serious scientific subject, and should be taken seriously...

Why would anyone not take the testimony of such notables seriously?

There is NOTHING to fear in discussing this rationally..., and not turning a blind eye, offhandedly dismissing it...

exopolitics: the nascent science of understanding the political implications of UFOs and extraterrestrial life

http://exonews.org/top-ten-ufo-exopolitics-stories-2014/

 

[I amnot Herbert]

Silvercrest sez:

"Herbert, this implicitly contradicts your threads alleging the existence of a secret space fleet. You know, the one that's already fighting these aliens? What happened — did you change your mind and decide to beat the topic to death some more?

If you want to convince us of anything, you'll need to decide what it is and be consistent about it."

Your extremely weak strawman is rejected: We need DISCLOSURE (the truth)

They (the positive "aliens") are here to help us... but they can't until we acknowledge them (non-interference)

 

[USS Triumphant]

I just ran a search on the information presented by "Exonews", and it hasn't been presented anywhere at all that isn't what I would call an extremely cranky source. Now, some might consider that proof that "the truth is being suppressed by The Man" or whatever, but our planet is simply not that unified. If there was anything to this story, you'd better believe it would have been picked up by the state media of one of the traditional adversaries of the United States if they thought it could put even a tiny bit of pressure on our government.

 

[Avon]

i'd be interested to know how lord hill-norton signed that when he died in 2004.

a bit of googling reveals that fife symington is a convicted fraudster, so not someone to put your trust in.

victor viggiani isn't a news director, but he does have a blog of 'the strange'.

bill wickersham just seems to be a regular ufo nut.

etc,etc

 

[YellowSubmarine]

If there was anything to this story, you'd better believe it would have been picked up by the state media of one of the traditional adversaries of the United States if they thought it could put even a tiny bit of pressure on our government.

Why would they?

I have been doing a lot of reading lately and I am getting more and more doubtful that this place called "USA" actually exists. Nobody has ever shown any concrete evidence that it is there. I think people have been given incentives to lie that they have visited such country, and the great number of Hollywood productions, most actually shot on Mars with Reptilian actors, have been created by our shadow government for the sole purpose of deceiving us that America exists. It has been so since Columbus decided to lie that he found land, which he never did – everyone knows he almost fell off the edge of the Earth.

Have you noticed how none of the people who "go" to America, ever return from there? Or if they do, they do with a lot of money? I have a theory on what chemtrails are made of, and you wouldn't like it...

 

[I amnot Herbert]

I just ran a search on the information presented by "Exonews", and it hasn't been presented anywhere at all that isn't what I would call an extremely cranky source. Now, some might consider that proof that "the truth is being suppressed by The Man" or whatever, but our planet is simply not that unified. If there was anything to this story, you'd better believe it would have been picked up by the state media of one of the traditional adversaries of the United States if they thought it could put even a tiny bit of pressure on our government.

Consider what Snowden has revealed... it IS pretty "unified" in the way you imply...

the (mainstream) media IS controlled, but some of this stuff DOES make it out there...

Don't you trust Apollo 14 astronaut Dr. Edgar Mitchell?

 

[I amnot Herbert]

I have been doing a lot of reading lately and I am getting more and more doubtful that this place called "USA" actually exists. Nobody has ever shown any concrete evidence that it is there. I think people have been given incentives to lie that they have visited such country, and the great number of Hollywood productions, most actually shot on Mars with Reptilian actors, have been created by our shadow government for the sole purpose of deceiving us that America exists. It has been so since Columbus decided to lie that he found land, which he never did – everyone knows he almost fell off the edge of the Earth.

Have you noticed how none of the people who "go" to America, ever return from there? Or if they do, they do with a lot of money? I have a theory on what chemtrails are made of, and you wouldn't like it...

Thank you! I need a laugh!

 

[USS Triumphant]

I Want To Believe just as much as you do, I amnot Herbert, but completely aside from any Earthbound conspiracy theories, you have to consider odds.

Humanity has been around for a few hundred thousand years, give or take. In that time, so far, we've had about 150 years - being generous - where we could be detected by our radio emissions elsewhere in space. Odds are high that we will either destroy ourselves (or, knock ourselves way back down the tech chain) sometimes within the next 200 years, or we will turn inward due to something like The Singularity. Let's be generous though and go ahead and say we're detectable and also looking out in space for a full 10,000 years. If that fits the general pattern of any intelligent life that might be out there, that means that in order to make contact:

1. Our 10,000 year windows would have to overlap, which is pretty improbably already due to variance in the age of stars, planets, and rates of development of life on planets.

And 2. They would have to be within 10,000 light years for us to detect them before they've wiped themselves out or turned inward.

And then, even IF we could make contact against the odds of those factors, there is nothing *with a basis in solid science* that I've seen that lends itself to the notion that we can build anything made of matter or that could carry people that would not be converted to energy (and KILLED) at any practical speed necessary to reach any but our nearest stellar neighbors.

I'd love to be wrong - tomorrow we successfully develop warp drive or some such - but I just don't see evidence that I am.

My two hopes:

1. The most realistic hope, I think, would be that sometime soon we figure out some sort of equivalent of CB radio using tech developed out of our studies of quantum entanglement, which provides instantaneous communication anywhere. And then we discover that many other civilizations - including those much further than 10,000 light years because that wouldn't matter - have developed it, too, and we end up on an intergalactic version of the Internet. We still wouldn't be able to really visit, but maybe we could through telepresence - which would be really cool, because there would be no new wars between species because of it due to the host having complete control to kill the connection at any time.

2. The hope that has worse odds than buying lottery tickets, but could still happen, is that we get really really lucky and there IS an intelligent civilization with an overlap with us at one of the stars on this list. If we can build ships that can do even a quarter c without killing crew, that's "only" about 19 - 47 years to get there. I think that's doable, even if just barely, and we could trade stuff and *maybe* even have a few manned missions just "because it's there" before we give that up as wasteful.

 

[Avon]

well in this interview mitchell himself says that its 'just speculation on my part' and that he's never seen a ufo:

http://uk.askmen.com/entertainment/right-stuff/ed-mitchell-interview.html

 

[I amnot Herbert]

I Want To Believe just as much as you do, I amnot Herbert, but completely aside from any Earthbound conspiracy theories, you have to consider odds.

Humanity has been around for a few hundred thousand years, give or take. In that time, so far, we've had about 150 years - being generous - where we could be detected by our radio emissions elsewhere in space. Odds are high that we will either destroy ourselves (or, knock ourselves way back down the tech chain) sometimes within the next 200 years, or we will turn inward due to something like The Singularity. Let's be generous though and go ahead and say we're detectable and also looking out in space for a full 10,000 years. If that fits the general pattern of any intelligent life that might be out there, that means that in order to make contact:

1. Our 10,000 year windows would have to overlap, which is pretty improbably already due to variance in the age of stars, planets, and rates of development of life on planets.

And 2. They would have to be within 10,000 light years for us to detect them before they've wiped themselves out or turned inward.

And then, even IF we could make contact against the odds of those factors, there is nothing *with a basis in solid science* that I've seen that lends itself to the notion that we can build anything made of matter or that could carry people that would not be converted to energy (and KILLED) at any practical speed necessary to reach any but our nearest stellar neighbors.

I'd love to be wrong - tomorrow we successfully develop warp drive or some such - but I just don't see evidence that I am.

My two hopes:

1. The most realistic hope, I think, would be that sometime soon we figure out some sort of equivalent of CB radio using tech developed out of our studies of quantum entanglement, which provides instantaneous communication anywhere. And then we discover that many other civilizations - including those much further than 10,000 light years because that wouldn't matter - have developed it, too, and we end up on an intergalactic version of the Internet. We still wouldn't be able to really visit, but maybe we could through telepresence - which would be really cool, because there would be no new wars between species because of it due to the host having complete control to kill the connection at any time.

2. The hope that has worse odds than buying lottery tickets, but could still happen, is that we get really really lucky and there IS an intelligent civilization with an overlap with us at one of the stars on this list. If we can build ships that can do even a quarter c without killing crew, that's "only" about 19 - 47 years to get there. I think that's doable, even if just barely, and we could trade stuff and *maybe* even have a few manned missions just "because it's there" before we give that up as wasteful.

Thank you for your thoughtful comments

but you're using 20th century thinking... look how far WE have come in only ONE century...

Consider the possibilities inherent in civilizations that have existed for eons... don't you think their technology would seem "magical" to us?

Advanced technology overcomes the limitations of Newtonian physics (acceleration, etc...)

 

[USS Triumphant]

but you're using 20th century thinking... look how far WE have come in only ONE century...

Well, there's no need to be insulting.

Quantum entanglement as a feasible means of communication is hardly "20th century thinking", but yes, LOOK at how far we've come: we've gone from one man, very nearby, being able to shoot (and HOPE to kill, since aim isn't great at all) a small group of people with a primitive machine gun, to being able to do computerized precision kills with drones from the other side of the planet. Not to mention being able to destroy whole cities from there, too. Do you honestly believe that if we develop a propulsion system that can propel a spacecraft at the speeds necessary to reach nearby star systems quickly that someone won't think to aim that energy as kinetic damage at targets on Earth? Heck, our tech level NOW is worrisome enough, because I wonder how long it will be after Earth powers start getting bases on the moon and Mars before someone gets the bright idea to start doing calculated drops of asteroids on us.... And then there's the accidents possible - Grey Goo. Hostile AI. Genetically engineered "targeted viruses" that get out of control, because they almost certainly would. And on and on.

What you're really arguing FOR, here, are reasons that the 10,000 years I allowed for in my previous post is actually SUPER generous.

Advanced technology overcomes the limitations of Newtonian physics (acceleration, etc...)

And you're basing this on.... an assumption that your wishes will be fulfilled? Certainly not science. Remember to put in word for a pony for my wife and daughter with your fairy or genie while you're at it for me.

 

[I amnot Herbert]

but you're using 20th century thinking... look how far WE have come in only ONE century...

Well, there's no need to be insulting.

Quantum entanglement as a feasible means of communication is hardly "20th century thinking", but yes, LOOK at how far we've come: we've gone from one man, very nearby, being able to shoot (and HOPE to kill, since aim isn't great at all) a small group of people with a primitive machine gun, to being able to do computerized precision kills with drones from the other side of the planet. Not to mention being able to destroy whole cities from there, too. Do you honestly believe that if we develop a propulsion system that can propel a spacecraft at the speeds necessary to reach nearby star systems quickly that someone won't think to aim that energy as kinetic damage at targets on Earth? Heck, our tech level NOW is worrisome enough, because I wonder how long it will be after Earth powers start getting bases on the moon and Mars before someone gets the bright idea to start doing calculated drops of asteroids on us.... And then there's the accidents possible - Grey Goo. Hostile AI. Genetically engineered "targeted viruses" that get out of control, because they almost certainly would. And on and on.

Advanced technology overcomes the limitations of Newtonian physics (acceleration, etc...)

And you're basing this on.... an assumption that your wishes will be fulfilled? Certainly not science. Remember to put in word for a pony for my wife and daughter with your fairy or genie while you're at it for me.

Has advanced technology been used for negativity on Earth?

Consider HAARP: and all of the weird weather and earthquake activity, accompanied by flocks of birds falling dead from the sky, rivers full of fish turning belly-up, seemingly targeted...

Re: advanced physics: u r a funny guy!

 

[USS Triumphant]

Has advanced technology been used for negativity on Earth?

Consider HAARP: and all of the weird weather and earthquake activity, accompanied by flocks of birds falling dead from the sky, rivers full of fish turning belly-up, seemingly targeted...

I'm glad to see you've come around to my way of seeing things, if in a bit of a cranky fashion. You are now making my argument about why we have a limited window of detectable civilization for me.

 

[I amnot Herbert]

I'm glad to see you've come around to my way of seeing things, if in a bit of a cranky fashion. You are now making my argument about why we have a limited window of detectable civilization for me.

Huh? the universe took note of us when we set off the first atomic bomb. we are too important to be allowed to destroy ourselves. Nor will we be allowed to project that destruction beyond our world. Atomic weapons destroy the very fabric of our existence to an extent that we do not realize...

 

[Avon]

you realise 'the day the earth stood still' wasn't a documentary?

i genuinely can't tell whether you're takin the pee or actually believe any of this.

 

[I amnot Herbert]

you realise 'the day the earth stood still' wasn't a documentary?

I Know My Galactic Family Is Here, Do You? (UFO Disclosure)

 

[USS Triumphant]

we are too important to be allowed to destroy ourselves.

Just for poops and giggles... Why is that supposed to be, exactly?

you realise 'the day the earth stood still' wasn't a documentary?

Given that this is a Trek board, though, it wouldn't surprise me if the idea about nukes drawing attention is coming from one of the novels' stories about what first made the Vulcans pay attention to us, though, instead of that classic.

 

[USS Triumphant]

I Know My Galactic Family Is Here, Do You? (UFO Disclosure)

You post that our nukes were what got the attention of aliens, and then post a video saying that they've been visiting us "since the beginning of time". Which is it, again?

 

[Avon]

also weren't we meant to be fighting the alien invaders with our secret space battleship yamato?

 

[I amnot Herbert]

I Know My Galactic Family Is Here, Do You? (UFO Disclosure)

You post that our nukes were what got the attention of aliens, and then post a video saying that they've been visiting us "since the beginning of time". Which is it, again?

it is both. there are countless races of "aliens", some have been actively involved in our creation / development...

the atom bomb sent out a warning: we have developed enough to be dangerous, and thus, need to be carefully watched...