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Modernized TOS Enterprise

I think the exterior design of the TOS Enterprise is just fine, and honestly could still work in a more "modern" telling of the story with only minor tweaks. Little bits of detail here and there, but the overall sleekness of the ship is still very appealing in a sci fi context, IMO.

As to the interior sets, the reproductions of the TOS sets looked fantastic in "In a Mirror, Darkly." With modern lighting and filming techniques, those set designs are still really good. The corridors in particular have the kind of aesthetic you would expect in a spaceship. The grills in the ceiling, the exposed pipes, the ladders all paint the picture of a functioning machine, without being over the top.
 
One significant, though small, change from TOS would be the bulky, bread-machine-like computers. They would shrink in overall size and even more in thickness. Remember those table-mounted intercoms in TOS? That's about the size I'd make most computer consoles, give or take. There would still be the refrigerator-sized "server farm" variety of machines, decentralized throughout the ship for the protection of data.
 
Here is my question... why go backwards?

The TOS Enterprise doesn't need to be modernized... 21st century people need to be.

Why would you need more than a single phaser bank? This is a FTL ship that can shoot in all directions essentially at once. As long as warp drive is functioning, it can hit anything. When it is down to impulse power, yeah, it has some limitations.

More importantly, the Enterprise isn't a battleship. ...snip...

I pretty much agree with most of what you wrote about the ship being multi-purpose. I would disagree with your reasoning on phaser placement, in that if a ship approaches from Z+10 km, directly above, then only a dorsal phaser bank could hit that ship. A single phaser bank would be like having only 1 gun on a battleship that can only reach 90° forward.

As for the term 'modernizing,' I would disagree in that some design choices made in TOS are very '60's', and should be modernized. The desk monitors could be flat screens, decor and clothes could be changes along with hair styles. For the ship, the control panels are unlabeled and at least to me would seem more functional if they were labeled, not so 'gel-cap'-looking, had more variety in button type (sliders, switches, on/off indication like in Knight Rider's car, etc). The engineering deck seems incredibly spartan; the TMP/TWOK engineering set seems much more functional, and with a bit of color could be better than having a brewery in the hull.
 
The corridors are about 10'... which works great when you consider that the average deck height is about 10'. Clutter isn't needed, and in fact would be a step backwards. On the Enterprise most of the plumbing in the walls is actually plumbing. Each of the pressure compartments of the primary hull can work independent of the rest of the ship in emergencies, but those systems don't take up a lot of space.

I'm not wanting to clutter the corridors at all. And at least to me, they look about 14' tall or so with those moire cross beams. That's something I'd call for modernizing so it looks more like a starship. And for the walls, imagine a flat sheet of metal, with recessed handles maybe 2-3' apart that you stick your hands into to release, and inside is the ship's piping, emergency supplies, distributed computing resources, etc. That's what I'm thinking should be put in the corridor so that it looks more functional. And perhaps get rid of the A-frames.
 
What I wanted to see in Star Trek 2009. Either of the above exteriors you linked. Uniforms like what we saw (I think the uniforms are the only thing I don't have a problem with). Interior bridge consoles like this: http://vimeo.com/12023417

I was pretty okay with the uniforms in Trek '09, aside from every ship having the arrow emblem in 2233/2254 already (and the arrow patterns in the fabric), when it was established that each ship had separate patches. Maybe UESPA had arrowheads, and other fleets had other patches, like Christopher Bennett theorized in early Starfleet ships.

I really liked the gray dress uniforms with covers for officers. That was pretty awesome. They looked both familiar, and futuristic at the same time. Your vimeo for consoles is definitely a good resource for what I'd think a more modernized bridge would have.
 
One comment about deg3d's and Vektor's excellent 3D artwork in their low-key re-imaginings of the TOS Enterprise:

I love how they've added interesting and subtle details to the "old" starship . Their artwork proves to me that it is indeed possible (and practical) to take the original Enterprise, essentially the same design we saw in TOS, and make it "new" again for high-definition television or movies. Matt Jefferies TOS design does work! That having been said, there are two minor details that I wish deg3d and Vektor had left alone, leaving them as they were: the "boomerang"-style Starfleet pennant and the "Airborne"-style naval-like block lettering and arrangement on the hull. Messing with these minor design elements does nothing to enhance the appearance of the "re-imagined" ship in my view, and only seems to detract from it. When I first saw the "refit" Enterprise in TMP in December of 1979, I could accept that a rebuilt space vessel may undergo significant changes to its appearance for practical reasons, so the new nacelles, new dish, new wings, and fancy do-dads made some sense to me. But replacing the pennant and the old block lettering were both unnecessary and detracted from the "new" ship. In a small but significant way, they seemed to amount to a changing of the meaning and intent of what TOS was. The use of the Microgamma typeface variant for the TMP refit hull lettering was actually the most irritating to me. It looked obnoxious then and it looks sad and dated now, as if someone was trying to say: "See here? We have fancy computers and artists using a modern, funky typeface... It's called a font! That's new computer-geek speak for we're better than we were before." Laugh all you like, but I found it tasteless.[\QUOTE]

I didn't disagree with the font change much between TOS and TMP. I liked the subtle outline on the main hull markings, actually, and the new pennants on the engineering hull. For TOS, though, I'd keep its pennants and font in any modernizing of it. It kind of serves to separate the two eras - the 2240s-2260s from the 2270s-2340s or so.

Now that I got that out of the way, I just want to say that many of deg3d's and Vektor's subtle design changes to massage the Jefferies design work very well. There are elements of each that would look great in a re-imagined (or re-done TOS-R) Enterprise.

As for the Enterprise's interior: the artwork from people trying to revive those TOS interiors is intriguing, but comparatively rare. Over on the Trek Art forum, Donny Versiga has been trying to faithfully render the interior sets of both the TOS and TMP-era bridges, with astonishing success. In a re-imagining scheme, I might make things look a bit different, but essentially the same. The TOS Enterprise bridge, for example, is the best looking bridge in the entire TREK franchise. There are some subtle things I might experiment with, though. The square readout displays that ring the bridge at eye-level (when seated) might look more interesting if some of the squares were merged to form HDTV-like pillbox displays. The displayed content and texture of the display ring would still be the same, just a subtle re-arrangement. The TOS-style officers' chairs looked silly when the bridge tipped in "rough seas", so I would want to see them bolted down and with the subtle addition of TMP-style armrest restraints. (They would have to look like they "fit in" on the TOS chairs, tough.) The captain's throne would not change.[\QUOTE]

YES. Bolt the chairs down! And arm rests with some kind of restraints that can be used in turbulent travel.

The constellations of buttons and switches would have to change. Even with all of its blinkies and displays, the Enterprise bridge did not have enough controls and readouts to make it a plausible spacecraft. Some buttons and switches would remain, but most would be replaced by iPad-style touch-screen displays vaguely similar to TNG. The buttons and switches would serve as a gateway device at each station, helping the operator switch between different software-generated touch-screen control panel layouts.[\QUOTE]

I kind of agree here, though I'd say Surface-like touchscreen rather than iPad, but that's just personal preference :) The eye-level screens should be touch, and the overheads could possibly be Kinect-like in interface using 3D motion for interaction in addition to console-level controls. That way, Spock could brief a few officers on a scientific phenomenon, or Scotty can detail repair efforts on a larger screen.

As for buttons, just being traditionalist I'd try to keep the semi-circle arrangement, but make it more functional - vary the buttons to include rocker switches, toggle switches, on/off light-up switches, sliders, etc. and a few touch panels, but not too many.

The upper ring of displays, broken up by colorful framing, actually made the overall TOS bridge design easier on the eyes than any other, in my opinion. If there were a change to the broader texture of the bridge that might be interesting to tinker with, it would be adding of a more metallic-looking texture to the walls. This would be especially interesting to see around the bridge's turbolift boarding area and the frame around the Main Viewer. Other TOS sets, such as the Enterprise's corridors, Engineering, Jefferies Tube and Transporter Room might also benefit from some metallic treatment.

The only other significant element would be the desktop displays. I would do what "In a Mirror, Darkly" did and trying to make them larger to be more useful as a display, as well as making them thinner. For the Briefing room, Spock's workstation would be reshaped to resemble a baby science station with control panel and readout. The triangular table display might disappear in favor of the wall-mounted viewscreens.

One thing I'd want to be careful about is the lighting of these sets. Contemporary TV and movies are really into dark atmospheres, and that doesn't work for a show like TOS (or TNG, for that matter). Sets would be well-lighted.

Agreed. I'm tired of dark and brooding atmospheres. Give me something hopeful to look forward to! That's what Trek is supposed to be, and was in TOS. Show me a future where things turned out alright, and we do try to better ourselves and help other races in need.
 
I would disagree with your reasoning on phaser placement, in that if a ship approaches from Z+10 km, directly above, then only a dorsal phaser bank could hit that ship. A single phaser bank would be like having only 1 gun on a battleship that can only reach 90° forward.
To quote Spock... "He's intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates ...two-dimensional thinking."

An FTL ship can point in any, ANY, direction without delay... including straight up, straight down or directly behind. The Phase II Enterprise has a single weapons port that points straight forward (though it does have a targeting lens at the opening), and that is all it needs. If the ship can move faster than light, then no mechanical aiming system on the weapons can aim the weapons faster than just pointing the ship at the target.

As for the term 'modernizing,' I would disagree in that some design choices made in TOS are very '60's', and should be modernized.
Really? Because as I recall, TOS takes place in the '60's... the 2260's, but still the 60's. I haven't lived in the 2260's so I don't know what would be considered modern. But lets look at some specifics...

The desk monitors could be flat screens,
Originally they were. In WNMHGB and later in Requiem For Methuselah we see nice flat panel displays that rival anything we have today. On Earth during TOS you might find most people using exactly that type of thing... but the Enterprise isn't on Earth. The Enterprise needs to be self sufficient, which means they can't take their stuff to the Apple store if something goes wrong.

As I pointed out earlier, everything can be made on the Enterprise... but how? If you need a display, the Enterprise computers can print the components, but you'd still need to put them together. For something assembled in a factory super slim is great, but on a starship it is easier to work with slightly more room. The desktop displays aren't CRT based in TOS, but they are easy to repair.

Most of the Enterprise has to be like this. Someone from Earth in the 2260's visiting the Enterprise would most likely comment on how bulky and behind the times the technology seems compared to the commercial products they are used to. But then again, TODAY you might say the same thing if you were taking a closer look at the brand new Orion spacecraft.

The 2260's are advanced in the Trek universe, but they don't have replicators just yet, so some things seem bulkier than they might be back on Earth.

decor and clothes could be changes along with hair styles.
Why? Again, do we know what the styles are in the 2260's?

In TOS pants are part of the standard uniform for both men and women, but women choose to wear miniskirts then. Why? I don't know. Why are women doing the free the nipple thing now or bra burning 50 years ago... we don't know what is happening socially on Earth in the 2260's, so we shouldn't judge.

For the ship, the control panels are unlabeled and at least to me would seem more functional if they were labeled, not so 'gel-cap'-looking, had more variety in button type (sliders, switches, on/off indication like in Knight Rider's car, etc).
In 1986 I got my first Porsche... it had the gear pattern on the shift knob. Less than a month later I replaced that knob with a leather one with the Porsche badge on it... because I didn't need to see that pattern.

I'm sure that back at the academy, everything is labeled... and there are versions of those control panels on the Enterprise that are labeled... but if you need the labels, you shouldn't have a bridge assignment.

Here is how smart Uhura is in TOS... she can work ANY station on the bridge. We see her at the communication station, library computer station, navigation station and using the controls on the captain's chair... and she can modify the communications station herself (as Spock said, she is the most qualified person to do it).

Nichelle Nichols should have looked at her character a little closer, because she was AWESOME!

But here is the thing, the stations on the bridge were the department heads. There were other communications officers working under Uhura elsewhere on the ship. In fact most of the people that work directly under the bridge officers are on deck 8... which is where you head if the bridge gets damaged.

The engineering deck seems incredibly spartan; the TMP/TWOK engineering set seems much more functional, and with a bit of color could be better than having a brewery in the hull.
Again, compared to what? We don't know how any of this stuff works, so why would we need to see more than they actually need?

I'm going to pick on someone that deserves to be picked on here... David Merriman. :devil:

He is not much of a Trek guy so it was funny to read this quote by him...Lets look at this magic crystals part as an example.

What if we take a real life story about a group of people on one of our submarines and gave it to someone a few hundred years ago. How would they react to it?

Even the most advanced scientists of the day might say there is precious ‘real’ science evidenced by the story with it's underwater ships running on a few pounds of a magic metal.

Honestly, putting too much of today into science fiction dates it. And TOS actually went backwards moving from the pilots to the series. On the bridge the large areas at the stations were able to display multiple windows of data in The Cage, but then were reduced to smaller displays that were shaped like TV screens of the day. In the 60's they thought that looked more modern, but in reality the original design was better.

If I were to change anything, it would be to undo some of the design changes made to the Enterprise during TOS to help audiences better relate to the technology. Jefferies original designs were perfect. Even things like reaction control thrusters hurt the design... why would a control system of the 2260's look like what we are using in the late 20th and early 21st century? Almost anything we would attempt to add to the Enterprise today to modernize it would be the equivalent to applying steampunk to it.
 
I'm a couple of days late discovering this thread, but I just thought I'd mention that neither of the images linked in the original post are mine. The first belongs to Douglas E. Graves (DEG) and the second is Dennis Russell Bailey's.

As it happens, I have none of those images currently online but a pair of them can still be seen on TrekMovie.com along with Bailey's version and Gabe Koerner's very well known design.
 
I saw the modernized Enterprise in TMP-TUC. No need to redo what's already been done, in my opinion.

Other than Shaw's model, I don't really care for the P2 version. The movie era E does it for me.
 
1: That conversion of spaces (such as the bowling alley, among others) can take place for special occasions, so that guest quarters and additional cargo space can be secured to allow for the full crew (nothing in the ep to indicate anything less than a full crew, and everything to suggest there was a full crew) plus improvised space for Sarek, Gav, and company?

Warships did this for a long time when they were the fastest method of official travel. The best accommodations (admiral's cabin) would go to the highest ranking passenger and so on down through the captain and executive officers' cabins, with the people at the lower end of the chain double-bunking or whatever was necessary. I would imagine whatever cargo/extra equipment/flexible space aboard could be pretty easily configured as living space for whatever Enterprise personnel were displaced by giving up their quarters for VIPs.

2: Would this not reinforce the FJ notion that Federation starships, such as the Constitution-class Enterprise (TNG-R, "The Naked Now") have a "supercargo" capacity for passengers? (Also reinforced by "The Conscience of the King" and "A Taste of Armageddon")

I really don't know why FJ used the word "supercargo," it means an agent aboard a merchant ship who represents the owner of the cargo.
 
What I wanted to see in Star Trek 2009. Either of the above exteriors you linked. Uniforms like what we saw (I think the uniforms are the only thing I don't have a problem with). Interior bridge consoles like this: http://vimeo.com/12023417

I was pretty okay with the uniforms in Trek '09, aside from every ship having the arrow emblem in 2233/2254 already (and the arrow patterns in the fabric), when it was established that each ship had separate patches. Maybe UESPA had arrowheads, and other fleets had other patches, like Christopher Bennett theorized in early Starfleet ships.

We've had a number of interesting conversations here about the various uniform patches that have made me change my opinion. When I was younger, I used to think each TOS era starship had it's own patch or emblem. Now, however, I like the idea the patches were for different "branches of authority" such as Starfleet, UESPA (well, they used the same), etc...


Starfleet Starship Insignia was all supposed to be the same?

Crazy Shaped Assignment Patches

Exeter Patch

Constellation Patch

Starfleet Command Insignia

Divisions, Insignia, Uniforms and Assignment Patches
 
I've always liked the movie era font with the larger red outlined letters and numbers. I'm not sure why.
 
@Vektor: would you mind sharing a few choice images of your "prime alternative" TOS Enterprise in this thread, for reference?
 
Well, there's an entire thread here that covers most of what I did after the first version was completed and textured. Here are some selected images. Click for full-size versions.



















And, last but not least, my "scale model" version:

 
An FTL ship can point in any, ANY, direction without delay... including straight up, straight down or directly behind.
Just because a ship can go FTL, that doesn't mean that it can accelerate to FTL speed instantaneously.

Getting specific to Star Trek, the Enterprise was usually shown taking time, measured in seconds aboard ship, to accelerate through the various warp factors. Even just getting to warp one from sublight often took a few seconds.
 
An FTL ship can point in any, ANY, direction without delay... including straight up, straight down or directly behind.
Just because a ship can go FTL, that doesn't mean that it can accelerate to FTL speed instantaneously.

Getting specific to Star Trek, the Enterprise was usually shown taking time, measured in seconds aboard ship, to accelerate through the various warp factors. Even just getting to warp one from sublight often took a few seconds.
From Elaan of Troyius...
Sulu: Warp power to the shields, Captain?
Kirk: Negative. His sensors will pick up our power increase. The more helpless he thinks we are, the closer he'll come. As he passes, I want to cut in warp drive. We'll pivot at warp two and bring all tubes to bear.
:techman:
 
Here is my question... why go backwards?

The TOS Enterprise doesn't need to be modernized... 21st century people need to be.

Why would you need more than a single phaser bank? This is a FTL ship that can shoot in all directions essentially at once. As long as warp drive is functioning, it can hit anything. When it is down to impulse power, yeah, it has some limitations.

More importantly, the Enterprise isn't a battleship. For the same reasons we don't have police driving around in tanks with rocket launchers and machine guns, the Enterprise isn't intended to come across as threatening. It can defend itself or outposts, but it isn't intended for battle. In fact the post WNMHGB refit was intended to make it a great exploration vessel (with the doubling of the crew size mostly for mission specialists). Before that she was mainly a patrol vessel.

Like the USS Ford, much of her interior space is intended to be multipurpose. Few rooms on the Enterprise are locked into a specific purpose. But then again, the Enterprise is a wireless ship (both informational and power supply), so you set up what you need where you can find room. The amount of power you can use anywhere on the ship is limited only by the amount of power available. All devices and equipment for the Enterprise are powered wirelessly by the Enterprise once they are on board. And the Enterprise has enough power to support a small to medium size colony... and can transmit that power to a planet surface from orbit.

And of course there is a bowling alley... when you need it. That space can also be used as a dance/banquet hall, theater, or accommodations for large group of people. The hangar deck is about the size of a volleyball court and can be used as such if people wanted. The Enterprise is versatile enough to handle most tasks, and yet is deceptively simple in it's design.

Most of the mission specialists assigned to the Enterprise can work from their quarters, and can request additional space from the first officer (Spock) if they need more... this is part of the reason for the first officer also being the science officer, the biggest part of the mission is science. Under Pike the first officer wasn't the science officer, but back then it was a patrol vessel.

The corridors are about 10'... which works great when you consider that the average deck height is about 10'. Clutter isn't needed, and in fact would be a step backwards. On the Enterprise most of the plumming in the walls is actually plumming. Each of the pressure compartments of the primary hull can work independent of the rest of the ship in emergencies, but those systems don't take up a lot of space.

The Enterprise doesn't require much in supplies because everything is reusable. It is a closed system. Everyone on the Enterprise is allocated a fixed amount of raw materials. These can be used to make food and water, uniforms or personal items... though the amount that can be kept in a stable physical form is limited (for example you could make books, but you can't keep a lot of them at any one time... if you also wanted to eat and have clothing). As long as the ship has power and raw materials, it can make nearly anything it needs (which is why you don't want to leave things behind if you visit anywhere... coming home lighter than when you left is frowned on).


In the end, the original Enterprise is way more advanced than stuff that has come since... because everything after has been trying to be modern to people who are still living in an antique age. The TMP Enterprise and later have all been boxed in by the limited foresight of the designers who were trying to be modern back then. The original Enterprise is still the only one that has real future potential... lets not limit it.
Nice! :techman:

There really aren't many changes I'd make to the TOS E, certainly not the exterior. Adding extraneous detail including aztec-ing looks more primitive to me. Regarding the interior I think the ring of overhead displays around the bridge would be more interactive, closer to what was seen in "The Cage." It would have been nice if all the computer consoles looked as sleek as those attached to the briefing room tables. It comes down to very subtle changes because, as Shaw says, everything else works as is.
 
This one got a double-take. Nice job.

Driveway02_thumb.jpg
 
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