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Are all crimes eliminated in the Federation?

The Overlord

Fleet Captain
Fleet Captain
It has been stated before that crime doesn't exist in the Federation, but are we talking about economic based crimes or all crimes?

There are a lot of crimes are based on economics: organized crime, theft, etc.

But not all crimes have an economic motive: sex crimes, crimes of passion, serial killers, etc are not motivated by money. Do these crimes not exist in the Federation? Are there no dangerous psychopaths in the Federation?
 
I don't think they ever came right out and said "no crime exists (at all) in the Federation.

They definately have crime in the 23rd.

In the 24th century, they still have laws, courts, jails, penal colonies. Kasity Yeats, Tom Paris and Ro Laren spent time in a civilian or military prison. Bashir's father might have been heading for one.

:)
 
I've never thought crimes are eliminated, but there's an inference that... somewhat extreme practices are used to 'cure' individuals of such thoughts.

The presence of some kind of judicial system within the Federation clearly determines that there is an expectation that, yes, people are still frail enough to submit to criminal behaviour.

But the question becomes, how does our 'benign' future society deal with these criminals? Incarcatation seems a little too much like a backwards step for our enlightened future humanity, akin to our 21st century judcial system bringing back the practice of putting heads on spikes. So what is the answer? We don't know, but there are times when TOS suggests some kind of treatment at a mental health facility (cf. Tantalus V and Elba II).

It's one of those questions that opens up a whole can of worms about whether future Star Trek society has traded away it's personal freedoms for the sake of feeling secure in their society. Even if we accept at face value that we saw Tantalus V in an irregular state of affairs, there was still Elba II later on, where it was basically inferred outright that standard Federation practices are to use technology to 'fix' individuals who have taken to unacceptable socitial behaviour.

Admittedly there is a fine line between that and mere psychology. But the former does rather suggest the unwillingness of the individual to submit, and possibly the removal of that person's free will so that they can be "retrained" to become helpful members of society.
 
Well on Tasha's home planet, we see that some pretty vicious crimes are being committed on a Federation colony where law and order has broken down.

I also wonder if alcoholism could be a problem in the Federation, sure the replicators seem to just serve non alcoholic beer, but it seems like Federation officers could get a hold of alcoholic drinks from alien worlds.
 
On Deneb Five the penalty for fraud is death (the condemned gets some say in the method).

Ro apparently found her time in the stockade unpleasent. Harry Mudd was exposed at one point in his life to psychological efforts to change him (didn't work).

When Scotty wouldn't jump throught Ambassador Fox's hoop, he was threatened with being sent to a penal colony, the impression I got was that Fox could of had Scotty sent to one on Fox's own personal authority. Without a trial.

:)
 
Well, we know there are still lawyers and con artists and the occasional crime of passion. Not to mention asylums for the criminally insane. And not just on alien worlds outside the Federation.

Look at "Court-Martial," "Is There in Truth No Beauty," "The Conscience of the King," "Whom Gods Destroy,"and, heck, even "The Trouble with Tribbles."

Wasn't Cyrano Jones charged with illegally dealing in dangerous life-forms? Sounds like a crime to me.
 
It's one of those questions that opens up a whole can of worms about whether future Star Trek society has traded away it's personal freedoms for the sake of feeling secure in their society.

Which is especially alarming to me in light of the fact that Picard once said "We've learned to detect the seeds of criminal behavior". Two things are left unanswered: how do they go about detecting it, and what then? :wtf:

If they somehow 'scan' the brain (whatever that might entail), do they 'scan' someone who's already committed a crime? Seems kind of pointless after the fact. Are children 'scanned' at birth? Are random citizens 'scanned' without their awareness?

I'm not sure I want to know... :wtf:
 
We have to distinguish between civilian and military views on crime or other offense here. Starfleet personnel apparently face punishment for wrongdoing, ranging from demotion to incarceration; we never hear of civilians facing punishment for anything. Instead, the stock response to a civilian committing a crime or other offense is therapy.

This therapy involves forcing the patient to stay in therapy, but that's not punishment by jailing - the "sentence" is the same whether you smuggle medicine to rebels or try to exterminate a species and possibly start galaxy-wide war, namely, six months of said therapy.

TOS indeed features two facilities providing therapy, one "regular" but perversely run in "Dagger of the Mind", one reserved for incurables and taken over by the inmates in "Whom Gods Destroy". But that's not all - TOS is very consistent about punishment being a thing of the past, and therapy being the answer to everything. When Lenore Karidian is caught murdering people left and right, she faces therapy. When Mudd's criminal record is studied, it includes charges on smuggling (suspended) and transport of stolen goods as well as purchase of vessel with counterfeit currency (sentence: psychiatric treatment).

Starfleet has a death penalty, apparently not with regard to crime but as deterrent against behavior that might jeopardize the safety of the human race (and a few others on the side). Initially, it's for violating General Order 7, which apparently deals with planetary quarantine and thus affects attempts to go to Talos IV. But Kirk goes there anyway, and the issue becomes moot; soon afterwards, the death penalty shifts to General Order 4, the nature of which is unknown (all we learn is that it doesn't relate to mutiny aboard a starship in any way).

TNG keeps up the good effort, as everybody from Kasidy Yates to Garak to Tom Paris gets "therapy", and comes out reformed. Very nicely reformed at that, as they are only cured of the single type of crime they committed, and are not diminished in any other way. But Quark gets a fine, which is a punishment. Then again, Quark isn't Federation. Then again, neither is Garak... (Perhaps for the Ferengi, a fine counts as reforming psychiatric treatment?)

TNG also adds an interesting tidbit when in "Justice" Picard says that criminal tendencies are screened against (as mentioned above). We don't know how that happens - are kids who fail a psych test quietly put to death or what? But Picard doesn't claim that this would be particularly effective in negating crime, nor that the UFP in general would be crime-free. It's just a thing the Feds do that helps them survive without draconian laws and death squads of the Edo sort.

Timo Saloniemi
 
After treatment, Garth of Izar seemed like he could be a pleasent and possibly even a valuable Starfleet officer.
 
And Harry Mudd supposedly never again purchased a ship with counterfeit currency or peddled stolen goods - yet the treatment did not deprive him of the ability to dream up new and different schemes. People treated by the likes of Dr. Adams apparently don't generally turn out like that poor Lethe character, not unless their Dr. Adams goes totally out of control. Which probably doesn't happen often, even when we note the isolated nature of the treatment facilities: even Tantalus V did get visited, and had several doctors to guard against each other.

Mind you, Garth was supposed to be incurable. He and his fellow madmen were in fact supposed to be the very last incurables in the system. Pretty impressive, really - supposedly everybody else out of the UFP trillions just gets in, spends six months in treatment, and gets out.

Timo Saloniemi
 
But you still have people committing irrational crimes out of revenge, ambition, jealousy, etc. Ben Finney faked his death to get back at Kirk and later attacked him physically. Laurence Marvick was driven to murder and sabotage by his unrequited love for Miranda Jones. Lenore Karidian went on a killing spree to protect her father. And then there's Janice Lester . . . I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that stealing somebody's body against their will violates some sort of Federation law.

Heck, David Marcus broke the law by using protomatter in his experiments. And Kirk stole a starship!

Now, the treatment of criminals may well be very humane and enlightened in the Federation, but let's not fool ourselves into thinking that human beings don't still commit crimes in the 23rd century. That's just human nature.
 
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...What the real significance of this brainwashing approach seems to be is that there are no repeat offenders. You do something the society doesn't approve of, you get brainwashed, you never do that specific thing again, as far as onscreen evidence goes. That's significantly better than what one could hope from threatening people with torture, like we do today and have done for the past ten thousand years or so.

Whether the offenses are rational or irrational has little bearing on this, apparently. Kasidy Yates did not need to be mad in order to help out the Maquis; she got cured of that urge. Garak was fanatically rational in trying to slaughter the Founders; he never tried that again, even when he certainly had plenty of opportunities (mainly in the form of stopping Starfleet from stopping S31 from conducting the slaughter). The therapy doesn't deal with what we would consider clinical insanity today. It's subtler, and it's more efficient, and it does seem to help deal with crime, despite there being no known deterrence value.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Which is especially alarming to me in light of the fact that Picard once said "We've learned to detect the seeds of criminal behavior". Two things are left unanswered: how do they go about detecting it, and what then?

You can test someone for psychopathy with a multiple-choice quiz (just googling brings up a lot of results). Then I guess the Fed gives them empathy and ethics classes, and stops them from working with children and animals.
 
It seems like sometimes Starfleet doesn't realize there's a problem until one of their most respected Captains or Admirals suddenly snaps and does something crazy. See Ron Tracey and Nora Satie.

Then there are guys like Dr. Sevrin, who become criminals because they're carriers of disease through no fault of their own, and are incarcerated to protect society. Watching "The Way to Eden" the other day, I wondered why Sevrin was immediately thrown in the brig, instead of locked in VIP quarters under guard.
 
I'm sure on the primary highly developed worlds that stuff like random mugging, robbery, burglary, etc are mostly gone (although there still might be theft of unique items, I could see someone like that guy that kidnapped Data breaking into a house to steal some old one of a kind artifact)
 
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