Star Trek Generations at 20 (November 18, 1994)

[Franklin]

It is amusing (or annoying, whichever you prefer) that when Geordi confirms there was a major problem with the Klingons and something happened involving the Enterprise, Picard asks no further questions before boarding the shuttlecraft. Maybe it was designed to be one of those implied, offscreen moments where Geordi and Worf inform him about the Enterprise's destruction after the shuttle takes off, but it just looks a little awkward for Picard not to say anything else.

Maybe that's a significant part of the reason why it's not in the final edit of the film. It just isn't a very good or well-designed scene.

Horrible deleted scene.

The natural reaction for Picard would've been the obvious, "What do you mean? What the hell happened?"

Yep. I'd like to know if there would even be a good way to write that scene in the first place, given all that just happened. Who speaks first? Does Picard tell Geordi and Worf about Kirk, and they have to interrupt him to tell him about the Enterprise? Do they break the news to him before he can say anything? If so, in terms of the story, it certainly overshadows Kirk's death in a hurry.

However, not really getting to see Picard's initial reaction to losing the Enterprise was bit of a loss. When we see him on the wreckage of he bridge, he seemed sanguine about it all. Almost as if, "Oh, well." There will be other Enterprises.

Indeed, in that last scene with Riker and Picard, it would've been nice for Picard to have mentioned Kirk in some way, maybe in response to a question Riker asks about Kirk. After all, there may be other ships named Enterprise, but there was only one James T. Kirk.

 

[cooleddie74]

Since the William Shatner novels about Kirk's resurrection aren't canon I have to wonder if Picard kept Kirk's existence and survival inside the Nexus and then death on Veridian III a secret in order to preserve how history books recorded the Captain's death.

I doubt Picard wanted to deal with Temporal Investigations and other Federation agents and officials who'd pry into the details of the Nexus and Kirk's travel forward into the late 24th century. Picard may have told Riker and the rest of his crew that he managed to defeat Soran by himself to avoid a long, complicated explanation and controversy once the Enterprise-D crew had been rescued and relocated to the nearest Starbase or wherever else they were taken.

 

[eyeresist]

Imagine Picard trying to explain it to his crew:
"And then - I was killed! Or was I? I awoke in a wonderful place where it seemed all my dreams had come true. And you were there too, Guinan. And then I met Captain Kirk! We rode horses together, and I convinced him to come back with me to defeat Soran. Oh, don't worry about how we got back - it's not important. So I punched Soran and saved the day, but Kirk was killed, but before he died he told me I was the greatest captain ever. No, you can't scan the planet to verify it's him - that would be disrespectful."

 

[Ithekro]

Almost makes you want to see a scene with Spock coming to Picard similar to either McCoy or Sarek to Kirk, "You left him on Veranda III? Why would you do that?"

 

[Allyn Gibson]

It is amusing (or annoying, whichever you prefer) that when Geordi confirms there was a major problem with the Klingons and something happened involving the Enterprise, Picard asks no further questions before boarding the shuttlecraft. Maybe it was designed to be one of those implied, offscreen moments where Geordi and Worf inform him about the Enterprise's destruction after the shuttle takes off, but it just looks a little awkward for Picard not to say anything else.

Maybe that's a significant part of the reason why it's not in the final edit of the film. It just isn't a very good or well-designed scene.

I have felt since 1994 that the film erred by not showing the Enterprise saucer streaking through the atmosphere overhead during Picard's confrontation with Soran. Yes, Veridian III is a big planet, and there's no magical reason why the Enterprise's crash would just so happen have taken it over Soran's base. (Yet, in a movie that shows us a rocket hitting a star roughly an astronomical unit away, scientific accuracy wasn't foremost in the filmmakers' thoughts.) But I think it would have been an effective scene, one that would have made Picard very aware of the stakes -- and very aware that he was now, quite likely, all alone.

 

[cooleddie74]

^
I agree. Picard glancing upwards as Soran is delivering blows and seeing the Enterprise's saucer section plowing through the clouds and heading for the surface would have allowed Stewart to display anger and terror at the thought that his ship had just been destroyed, fueling his determination to defeat Soran before he can destroy that solar system and kill every living being in it. It should have happened that way or at least something very close to it.

That way, when Picard enters the Nexus and meets Kirk he can say something about having just witnessed his own Enterprise being destroyed, which could have allowed the two captains to bond a little more closely and exchange more interesting script dialogue before the final battle and Kirk's death. If James T. Kirk understood anything at the end of his long career, it was loss and losing a ship named Enterprise.

 

[Mytran]

It was disappointing that Worf got almost nothing to do for the rest of the movie. He's basically in the background until the Enterprise is destroyed and then you don't see him anymore except for the deleted scene where he and Geordi are revealed to have piloted the shuttlecraft that found Picard and retrieved him.
[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cRl9ijdD2s[/yt]

Problem with this scene is you'd then expect it to cut to Picard saying "You ******* ******! You broke my ******** ship!"

Did anyone notice that Picard and crew enter into the shuttle through a side hatch? Yes folks, that there is one of the shuttles that first appeared in Star Trek 5. I thought that they had all been cut down to make the TNG shuttles but apparently I was wrong and there was at least one setpiece in storage all those years.

I have learned something today!

 

[cooleddie74]

It might be the same shooting prop used when Kirk, Spock, McCoy and Sybok land on Sha-Ka-Ree and walk outside onto the planet's surface, just modified and repainted to represent a late 24th century shuttlecraft.

 

[Mytran]

The only modification I can see it that it has side windows around the cockpit area.

I'm just a little surprised that they didn't wheel out the standard TNG shuttle, it worked well enough for the previous 4 years!

 

[Allyn Gibson]

The only modification I can see it that it has side windows around the cockpit area.

I'm just a little surprised that they didn't wheel out the standard TNG shuttle, it worked well enough for the previous 4 years!

My guess would be that the Star Trek V shuttle prop was transportable to the filming site (since it was used in location filming) whereas the TNG shuttle was studio-bound and not transportable (since TNG did little, if any, location filming).

 

[cooleddie74]

Yeah, the Star Trek V shuttlecraft had just the one large forward-facing cockpit window and that was it. They added side windows and more 24th century-appropriate Starfleet markings to the prop.

 

[BillJ]

The only modification I can see it that it has side windows around the cockpit area.

I'm just a little surprised that they didn't wheel out the standard TNG shuttle, it worked well enough for the previous 4 years!

My guess would be that the Star Trek V shuttle prop was transportable to the filming site (since it was used in location filming) whereas the TNG shuttle was studio-bound and not transportable (since TNG did little, if any, location filming).

My memory may be a little foggy, but didn't they use the TNG shuttlepod on location in "Descent"?

 

[Allyn Gibson]

They may have. I genuinely don't remember.

 

[ChristopherPike]

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8cRl9ijdD2s[/yt]

This just reminds me how there must be many more deleted scenes, which basically aren't on the DVD or Blu ray releases of the film.

I've often seen crappy timecoded VHS snippets around the web, but figure there must surely be better for Paramount to find.

Maybe it's morbid curiosity, but I've often wondered exactly how bad an alternate cut could be. Finish it as if the test screening hadn't called for changes. The whole Kirk gets shot in the back ending, and possibly extended or different takes used. Maybe take the opportunity to tweek bits. What was suggested earlier, having the saucer crash happen at the same time Soran and Picard fight - so much so that it skims overhead above the gantries and railings that lead to his rocket, strikes me as an impressive spectacle. I guess portions of it, would have to rehappen all over again, when Kirk exits the Nexus with Picard to help. On the second occasion, going down while Kirk fights Soran and Picard is instead standing at the rocket controls.

 

[cooleddie74]

I've wondered that myself. Just how inferior was the original cut that the Summer 1994 test audiences saw? Was the original Kirk death and ending the worst part of the film and was most of the rest of the movie more or less the exact same one we've been watching for the past 20 years? And what would the movie be like with the Soran-Geordi torture scene and other deleted sequences fully reintegrated into the story?

I guess there could always be another new Blu ray edition at some point that delves into these possibilities. With the 50th anniversary of the franchise coming up in 2016 who knows what CBS and Paramount are planning.

 

[ChristopherPike]

If there was a way to include the orbital skydiving opening scene, with Scotty and Chekov greeting Kirk on landing. Requiring CG to follow him down from space to the ground, intercut with the pair's conversation. Replace the Klingon Bird of Prey explosion rather obviously grabbed from the previous film. Perhaps that one swooping Enterprise shot dating all the way back to "Farpoint". Two corners they seemed to have had to cut.

 

[BillJ]

I guess there could always be another new Blu ray edition at some point that delves into these possibilities. With the 50th anniversary of the franchise coming up in 2016 who knows what CBS and Paramount are planning.

I think they're planning on selling us the exact same movie they've been selling us for twenty years now. But it'll say '50th Anniversary Edition' on the box!

 

[cooleddie74]

Even Lucas added unnecessary new effects and other changes to his movies when new box sets were released. If they're going to release a grand 50th Anniversary Movie Collection featuring the first twelve films then there'd better be a lot more to them than just new boxes and cover art, especially for the retail price they'd be asking!

 

[Lance]

I think the thing that makes me wonder if Paramount will ever revisit Trek for remastering is that they've resold them in multiple different ways since 2009, but always using the same 2009 pressings. It may seem relatively recent, but that is half a decade ago now.

Ideally I'd love to see them given the care and attention that CBS gave to the TV shows, but I know that'd be a pipe dream.

 

[Tomalak]

My memory may be a little foggy, but didn't they use the TNG shuttlepod on location in "Descent"?

Yeah, the little shuttlepod. That wouldn't have worked for the scene in Generations, because they needed to have Geordi, Worf, a couple of security guards, and Picard fit in. The bigger TNG shuttle was presumably too big and bulky to move to the top of a mountain in the valley of fire, so they must have dusted down a surviving Star Trek 5 shuttle. Presumably it was just made of plywood and easily broken down for transport.