Gotham - Season 1

[Icemizer]

^Boo hoo poor Devin doesnt like the show. He wanted something far more serious and is upset. He didnt like the balloon killer, which science aside I thought was a a highly ingenious and terrifying way to kill someone. He wanted full on corruption which I think we have in spades. He wanted a full on mob war from the get go, what no set up to learn the players?
I would enjoy seeing several failed vigilantes in the city with Bruce learning even at a young age what not do in his quest for justice.
The long game Devin, is the balance Gordon will have to walk between his ideals and falling to the corruption of the city. Will he become so obsessed with his mission of cleaning up Gotham that it costs everything or will he surrender to the slime in the sewers?
Will his strength of character pull Bullock over to the side of the angels?
I cant wait for a young ventriloquist to show up at fishes place for an audition.
Lots of stories to be told and I will tune in same Gotham time, same Gotham channel.
And lets realize that the show is just a few eps in and just finding its way.

 

[Mach5]

^Boo hoo poor Devin doesnt like the show. He wanted something far more serious and is upset.

So did I. Your condescension is moderately resented.

 

[Enterprise is Great]

Fox Orders Full Season of Gotham

Fox has ordered six more episodes of Gotham, bringing the freshman drama's order to a full 22-episode season, the network announced on Monday.

 

[Forbin]

Reminds me of when Voyager and Enterprise started. People started criticizing them immediately, and others said "You have to let the show find its legs! Wait till the second or third season!" Somebody's always ready to condemn a show right off the bat, and somebody's always going to say give it a chance. Of course only Trekkers will give a show three friggin seasons to shape up.

 

[Servo]

Still cracks me up that people are writing this show off already, when we're only 3 episodes in. No wonder shows get cancelled so easily in the US.

I wonder how many of their favourite shows had it nailed in the first 3 episodes.

 

[sidious618]

Still cracks me up that people are writing this show off already, when we're only 3 episodes in. No wonder shows get cancelled so easily in the US.

I wonder how many of their favourite shows had it nailed in the first 3 episodes.

The Sopranos, Mad Men, LOST, True Detective, The X-Files, and I could go on. The fact of the matter is, shows should be good right out of the gate and with more TV than ever, it's unreasonable to expect otherwise.

 

[Timby]

Still cracks me up that people are writing this show off already, when we're only 3 episodes in. No wonder shows get cancelled so easily in the US.

I wonder how many of their favourite shows had it nailed in the first 3 episodes.

I didn't and don't expect shows to come running out of the gate firing on all cylinders, but I need something to hold my interest, and Gotham isn't cutting it. I could take the schizophrenic, confused, muddled tone if the episodes were sharply written -- but the dialogue is atrocious. And the opposite would hold true, as well; if the dialogue were still awful but the tone was really vivid and engaging, I could roll with it a while. But between those two factors, and the acting being generally unimpressive (Ben McKenzie can play one character, though I admit he plays it really well, and Logue is excellent, but everyone else is all over the place), I don't feel particularly compelled to give an hour of my life every week to the show. As I said earlier, I made that mistake with Agents of SHIELD, and that went from being total dogshit to being total dogshit that got to play with some toys from the MCU sandbox. Fool me once and all that.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I think we're supposed to be ga-ga for Penguin.

Every time he guts someone, we're supposed to say 'oh, you scamp'.

Is it because the beautiful women are not beautiful enough?

Or is it because I'm so tired that beautiful isn't enough any more?

 

[Christopher]

On the question of how long to give a show before making up your mind about it, I've formulated a theory:

The first half-dozen or so episodes of a show are about making the show the network wants. The producers have to give the suits the kind of show they're expecting in order to convince them it's worth the investment and to earn enough trust to be given more of a free rein. And that means those first half-dozen or so episodes tend to be more formulaic, more conservative, more safe and reassuring to the money people. But the episodes after that are about making the show the creators want. That's when you start to see the show's real character begin to emerge, when the creators start pushing ahead with the stuff they intended to do all along. I've seen this with a number of shows, such as Threshold, Dollhouse, and the 2007 Flash Gordon.

The problem, however, is that audiences today tend to be impatient, so if a show doesn't grab them in the first six weeks, it'll probably fail. So the suits' insistence on being given the safe, conservative, familiar things they expect is often counterproductive. They see it as trying to guarantee a show's success by hewing to proven formulas, but often it kills shows early by deferring the really interesting and fresh stuff until it's too late to catch the audience's eye.

Then again, sometimes you get shows that fire on all cylinders right off the bat, like Sleepy Hollow. So sometimes the suits are smart enough to let a show be itself right from the start. And Gotham is on the same network. So it remains to be seen whether what we're seeing is the show Bruno Heller and Danny Cannon really want to make, or just the show the FOX executives expect them to make. I'll give it a while longer and see how -- or if -- it evolves.

 

[Relayer1]

Reminds me of when Voyager and Enterprise started.

Maybe not the best examples !

I've just watched the first episode and I didn't think there was much wrong with it. I just don't fancy watching several seasons of drawn out origin stories for the Batman supporting cast. I still don't.

No matter how good the storytelling is, if the premise of the show doesn't appeal it's not going to get me. I watched Soprano's, I passed on Madmen.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I want to use the Marvel Family.

But to keep things to scale, they're not even going to be born till season 8 or 9.

 

[Pauln6]

I enjoyed it, although I think 10 episodes would be enough to avoid dragging it out. I'm a little nervous that so many Batman villains were shoehorned into the first episode but overall I really liked it. Fish is a class act. Hope she gets a spin-off

 

[Guy Gardener]

22 episodes now, as of this morning.

http://www.ismyshowcancelled.com/article/2014-10-13/fox-gives-gotham-a-full-season/

 

[CorporalClegg]

The problem, however, is that audiences today tend to be impatient, so if a show doesn't grab them in the first six weeks, it'll probably fail. So the suits' insistence on being given the safe, conservative, familiar things they expect is often counterproductive. They see it as trying to guarantee a show's success by hewing to proven formulas, but often it kills shows early by deferring the really interesting and fresh stuff until it's too late to catch the audience's eye.

This.

And I don't know that it's so much the audience as it is just the nature of the business. With shorter seasons becoming more and more ubiquitous, series binging become more popular (streaming), and the decline of the classic TV dramatic series, I think people just expect shows to hit the ground running at full speed.

 

[Timby]

And I don't know that it's so much the audience as it is just the nature of the business. With shorter seasons becoming more and more ubiquitous, series binging become more popular (streaming), and the decline of the classic TV dramatic series, I think people just expect shows to hit the ground running at full speed.

Except you just said it was the audience (which behaves as a result of the nature of the business).

 

[Christopher]

And I don't know that it's so much the audience as it is just the nature of the business. With shorter seasons becoming more and more ubiquitous, series binging become more popular (streaming), and the decline of the classic TV dramatic series, I think people just expect shows to hit the ground running at full speed.

If anything, I'd say that streaming/binge-watching makes it easier to appreciate a show that has a slow start, because you can get to the good stuff quicker. For instance, the 2007 Flash Gordon series. It had a very poor start and lost its audience very quickly, but then it found its voice, corrected its mistakes, and improved as much as I've ever seen a show improve in a single season. And on the DVD set, all but one of the bad episodes are on the first disc. You make it through Disc 1 and it's clear sailing the rest of the way, except for one dud late in the season.

Also, if a series has a slow-burning arc, it's easier to see the progression of the story if you see a bunch of episodes in a row, because then it's easier to tell how the pieces are accumulating and leading up to something. If the setup and the payoff for something are three weeks apart, you may conclude that there isn't any building arc, that it's just a bunch of disconnected events. But if you see the payoff two and a half hours after the setup, then you get more of a sense of progression.

 

[DEWLine]

Well, they've got their full order for the season now. I guess the suits in this instance either smart enough or reassured enough.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

I liked "Arkham." If that's what this show will be, then I can be happy.

The direction had a stylized, Burton-esque quality to it. There was actual police work. Oswald didn't annoy me. It wasn't The Wire, but it sufficed.

One thing, though -- Gordon and Bullock need to stop closing their cases with lethal force.

 

[Icemizer]

Pretty good showing tonight. Some pretty violent deaths for the time slot and the catfight at the end was short but brutal. Penguin has more great moments even though they were telegraphed. Cracks in the Gordan/Barbara relationship have widened which is good. Young Bruce was again excellent.

 

[eyeresist]

^Boo hoo poor Devin doesnt like the show. He wanted something far more serious and is upset. He didnt like the balloon killer, which science aside I thought was a a highly ingenious and terrifying way to kill someone. He wanted full on corruption which I think we have in spades. He wanted a full on mob war from the get go, what no set up to learn the players?

As usual, different people want different things. Some want it more fantastical, some want it completely "serious". The producers have to walk a line and not everyone will be happy. Gotham is inspired by a superhero comic. If it was just a straight combo of Sopranos and Law & Order, what would be the point?

Forgot to mention in my previous post, I think Cobblepot is awesome, well conceived and an outstanding performance. A bug-eyed attention deficit-suffering psychopath, at once sensitive and oblivious. He reminds me of the evil nerds from Buffy. If the show was just about him, it might be even better.