Your Love For Amok Time !!!

Discussion in 'Star Trek - Original Series' started by Nero's Shadow, Jan 31, 2012.

  1. Ziriath

    Ziriath Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Frankly said, I hate this episode.
    Vulcan society is dumb and the whole story illogical. At first, there was a telepathic bond thingy, which turned out to be totaly pointless, since Spock got rid of pon farr when he 'killed' Jim and haven't even touched T'Pring at all. (That's good. If he really married T'Pring and then jumped with her behind the nearest bush, the moments after would be quite awkward for Jim and Bones, and inappropriate for 60's show). When some physical activity, like fight or so, was enough, he could have cured it just by running through the circular corridor on Enterprise, until he drops on the floor from exhaustion . And why it should be necessary to kill Jim? It seemed to me more like a hypnose. T'Pau mind-melded with him, and then he got mad, when 'koon-ut-kal-if-fee' was said. He calmed down, when she yelled 'Kroikah' and got normal, when he 'killed' Jim.
    When I saw this episode for the first time, I was quite shocked. I used to think that Vulcans are smart and developed. And then THIS. A woman as a goddamn PROPERTY of someone else? WTF?! And they call themselves logical? As a girl, I was offended by Amok Time.
     
  2. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    It's called irony.
     
  3. retrogradeloop

    retrogradeloop Captain Captain

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    My attention wanders during fight scenes. For me, it was all about "are our ceremonies for outworlders, Spoke?"

    None of it made a lot of sense if I thought about it too hard. But I think I just loved that, underneath the Vulcans' public persona, there were apparently eons of craziness, aptly embodied by Celia Lovsky.
     
  4. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Vulcan society has a place in itself, for something that Vulcans have no control of.

    Watch the episode again. Spock went into the blood fever only after T'Pring issued the challenge, before that he was semi in his right mind, admittedly driven by psychological compulsions. If there had been no challenge, I believe there would have been no blood fever.

    After he killed Kirk, the blood fever disappeared rapidly.

    As far as the remainder of the Pon Farr, obviously Spock didn't die. So between returning to the assigned place, meeting T'Pring, doing the mind meldy thing with the elder, observing the rights, somewhere along the line Spock satisfied the conditions that resulted in he not dying from Pon Farr.

    I'm pretty sure that Vulcans have houses. And never did anyone state that Pon Farr was about sex, Spock said "take a wife."

    The challenge was a surprise to Spock, it wasn't anticipated. T'Pring and Stonn knew it was coming, perhaps T'Pau too, but not Spock. This leads me to think that the challange is unusual occurance in the typical Pon Farr cerimony. So if Spock had tried simply running, he would have dropped dead at some point.

    Spock fought the designated champion to the death, it really didn't matter who it was.

    No, Spock as in the same mental state afer the mind meld as he was when he enter the temple.

    Although I suspect that it was the mind meld with T'Pau that turned off the "death countdown" in Spock's body.

    The tradition of the father giving away his daughter at her wedding, has its roots in the fact that daughters in olden day were considered part of their father's property. This is also where you get asking the father for the girl's hand in marriage.

    A woman as someone else's goddamn property. It's pretty obvious that formal language was being used, and that a ceremony was taking place. A traditional ceremony.

    :)
     
  5. scotpens

    scotpens Vice Admiral Admiral

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    This exchange implies that the challenge is an ancient practice, seldom done in modern times.
     
  6. Miss Lemon

    Miss Lemon Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    One of the best episodes about the friendship between Kirk and Spock ever made. Kirk risking his command to bring Spock to Vulcan. Spock snapping out of his blood fever to beg for Kirk’s life.

    It’s also wonderful that after all these years the episode remains sort of a mystery. We still do not know the exact meaning of these Vulcan mating rites, do we?

    And then there is Spock’s genuine smile…

    and Kirk’s ripped shirt. :D

    Interesting viewpoint, I have never considered this.
     
  7. jespah

    jespah Commodore Commodore

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    It seems pretty obvious that the challenge is rare (after all, I'm sure the Vulcans don't want to slowly exterminate their own species by killing off perfectly strong and healthy young (presumably also virile) males in marital challenges.

    Plus it doesn't seem like T'Pol had a challenge at her wedding, which was a far more private family ceremony. Some of the challenge may have had to do with the pomp and circumstance of being in a rather public ceremony.

    One bit o' wackiness, though – neither of Spock's parents show up, and they aren't even mentioned. And it does not appear that T'Pring's folks are there, either. Now, hers might be dead, but his aren't. A marriage of your child is a major life event, and Spock was not estranged from his parents. A simple, "Sarek and Amanda couldn't be here." would have fixed that.
     
  8. Foxhot

    Foxhot Commodore Commodore

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    But since, chronologically, they didn't yet exist....:cool:
     
  9. scotpens

    scotpens Vice Admiral Admiral

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    According to the Star Trek Compendium, the revised final draft script for “Amok Time” was submitted June 5, 1967. The revised final draft for “Journey to Babel” dates from September 19, 1967. In RL, Sarek and Amanda wouldn’t even exist until three months later.
     
  10. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    That's pretty good. :techman:
     
  11. Sky

    Sky Captain Captain

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    But wasn't Spock estranged from Sarek and Amanda?

    From Journey to Babel: "AMANDA: You don't understand the Vulcan way, Captain. It's logical. It's a better way than ours. But it's not easy. It has kept Spock and Sarek from speaking as father and son for eighteen years."

    I understand they only patched up their relationship because Enterprise happened to be the ship ferrying the diplomats to the conference and after Sarek's heart trouble Spock was there to (grudgingly) save him.
     
  12. jespah

    jespah Commodore Commodore

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    Ah, thanks, Sky.
     
  13. Redfern

    Redfern Commodore Commodore

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    And since Spock usually spoke of his parents in the past tense (until "...Babel"), writers could have gone in various directions with their backstory, up to and including having died. Thankfully, they did NOT choose that path and as a result, we got another fabulous Vulcan-centric teleplay.

    Sincerely,

    Bill
     
  14. CaptainNomad

    CaptainNomad Cadet Newbie

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    Especially in his smile when he sees Kirk is alive. Spock realises there is more spiritual security in human illogic. This is seen other times in the original TV/movie Star Trek casting, and why I like it so much.
     
  15. Octubre

    Octubre Ensign Red Shirt

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    Real work of art, though not my favourite ep. Interesting, thought-provoking script, exellent acting, lack of wasted scenes, good costumes and decorations and the best music in the whole show. For me it's too uncomfortable to watch it because of its overshooting tension but I like this episode.
     
  16. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I haven't seen Amok Time in about two years. I stumbled across this youtube and uh.. I actually teared up watching it.

    [yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lb3e-fFWGRs&feature=channel[/yt]
     
  17. JimZipCode

    JimZipCode Commander Red Shirt

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    Pike also strangles the Talsian, who I think has crept into the cell to take the phaser.
     
  18. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    I wasn't thinking of that as a "fight scene", at least one of significant proportions involving a showcase of choreographed stage combat techniques. But I'll defer to cinematic experts if it's considered one; perhaps I should have said major fight scene.

    :techman:
     
  19. JimZipCode

    JimZipCode Commander Red Shirt

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    Sure, that makes sense. I meant my comment more as a footnote, than anything.
     
  20. BoredShipCapt'n

    BoredShipCapt'n Commodore Commodore

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    Two of the greatest cues are in this episode, Spock's eerie guitar theme and the often-parodied-on-MST3K fight music. :techman: Also love the Vulcan ceremonial cues with the prominent tritones telling us "this is something alien that you won't understand."

    You could try "Mesdames" and see what they do. ;)

    Well, there was also the ancient Jewish tradition that the father of a family was their spiritual guardian and "kinsman redeemer" (go el), so the father giving the bride away symbolized that she was passing from the spiritual and material protection of her father to that of her husband.