You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Lance, Nov 8, 2013.

  1. JaxsBrokenHeart

    JaxsBrokenHeart Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Son'a would be serviceable bad guys if they actually did anything in the first two acts other than get their skin stretched as and if Insurrection were just a straight simplistic action flick, not an awkward Trek attempt at mixing light comedy/sci-fi action/ethical dilemma based drama.

    As is they basically are in a tie with the Ba'ku with smug naturalism in a dead heat with dull hamminess in likability.
     
  2. GalaxyX

    GalaxyX Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    They lost me at the point where they told Picard "We know what an Android is, our technology is just as advanced as yours"

    You could taste the smug in the air. So why did they need saving again? I'd have let them get transported away in that holodeck ship and laugh all the way back to the Federation.
     
  3. Coloratura

    Coloratura Snuggle Princess Premium Member

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    Two of my favorite things about this movie are F. Murray Abraham, whom I have adored since his role as Salieri in Amadeus, and the film's cinematography, which I think looks gorgeous.

    Other than that, there's not a lot for me to like. If it weren't for F. Murray Abraham, and my love of Star Trek, I would have skipped the film entirely.
     
  4. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Far too many Oscar-winning actors have discovered the hard way that it does nothing to secure quality work in memorable movies. Even Whoopie Goldberg won the Oscar and here she is on STAR TREK waiting tables. Who, outside of fandom, remembers her in this capacity - hat and all? The rare few, I'd imagine. And oh, by the way ... some of the hate displayed, here, for INSURRECTION has taken me by surprise!
     
  5. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Not hate. I just don't think it was a very good movie. I rank it 12th out of the twelve Star Trek movies.

    The moral dilemma is forced, the Ba'ku immensely unlikable and Picard's actions are driven mainly by wanting a piece of ass. The crew was never in any real danger and the lack of internal dissent over Picard's actions robbed the film of any real drama.

    I liked the "Gilbert & Sullivan" routine, the face stretching was cool and the cinematography during the planet scenes was awesome.

    Insurrection was a lesson in how not to make a movie. With a release date chosen and locked-in before they had even hired a writer and the stars (Stewart & Spiner) having too much say.
     
  6. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    From Insurrection, Picard: "In view of our losses to the Borg and the Dominion, the Council feels we need all the allies we can get these days."

    During the second world war American allied herself with the Soviet Union, we subsequently found out that they were much worse than the Nazis. In term of the amount of harm that they could do, the Sona were no-where near as bad as the Dominion, or even the Cardassians. And it's possible that additional information on the Sona was discovered after the partnership between the Federation and the Sona was already established.

    From Insurrection, Riker: "The Son'a are known to have produced vast quantities of the narcotic ketracel-white."

    When Riker said that the Sona were producing the narcotic ketracel-white, what I got from Riker's use of the term "narcotic" is he meant that the Sona were not providing it to the Dominion, but were selling it interstellar as a street drug. If Ketracel-white were to have a similar effect upon the majority of Humanoids as it does on the Jem'hadar (including addiction) it would be like crack. Energy, strength, endurance, no sleep, added plus a maniac willingness to kill.

    Ketracel-white can not be replicated, and might be the latest trendy "recreational" drug in the Alpha Quadrant.

    Other than the mention of the white, no connection between the Sona and the Dominion was brought up.

    It would have been interesting subject to have explored, better handled in DS9 episodes though.

    The Sona conquered two species, and that was a half century before. The Federation has an mutual defense treaty with the Klingon Empire, who also engage in conquest.

    The Sona took the two conquered species and made them into a labor class within the Sona society. One of the Federation's members (the Ardanans) also had a labor class on their world.

    If you think about it, what is unusual in the least about the Federation doing business with the Sona?


    :)
     
  7. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah, anyone sensible would just say to the Ba'ku... hey this medical technobabble's gonna save billions of lives. You mind giving up your immortality for this? But no, can't have that without your perceived victims looking like asses(more so than they already did), or ending the movie.

    Because the movie says they're the -bad- guys. I mean you'd never see a good guy bleeding on Picard's carpet so menacingly. :rolleyes:

    For bad guys they really were tame compared to any other villain. They made every effort to keep the Ba'ku alive until Picard's continued resistance just pissed off Ru'afo to the point where he said screw it.
     
  8. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I think the movie would've been better as a Starfleet vs. Starfleet drama and completely removing the S'ona from the film.
     
  9. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I like that idea. If nothing else, it would've removed a lot of the plot holes about the whole Baku-Son'a thing.(like how did the Baku kick them off planet? Why didn't the Son'a settle somewhere else in the intervening years? Don't they have an equal right to the planet? etc.)

    Actually yeah, your idea makes for a smarter and better movie.
     
  10. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Unfortunately, no one asked me and my idea is fifteen years too late. Hindsight is indeed 20/20. :lol:
     
  11. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Like the beginning of the episode Conspiracy, a conspiracy within Starfleet ... until they ruined it with the big insects.


    :)
     
  12. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Even with the insects it was interesting. Something more original than an alien with a funny forehead. Too bad they never followed up on it.
     
  13. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    Yes, but it would have been even better if they'd simply ditched Piller's script altogether and started over.
     
  14. GalaxyX

    GalaxyX Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The Ba'ku might has worked well as a primitive but well meaning race. Maybe along the lines of the Mintakans.

    Picard rebelling against Starfleet to protect a primitive race with major potential might have worked better.

    The worst crime of Insurrection is wanting us to care for a race that only proved to be a bunch of smug assholes.
     
  15. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Or if they had kept more of the ideas he originally pitched that were deep-sixed by Berman, Stewart and Spiner.
     
  16. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    Such as?
     
  17. GalaxyX

    GalaxyX Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I believe the original script was going to be much darker. Basically showing a Federation that was worn down by the war against the Borg and the Dominion, and their desperation to take the radiation off that planet's rings, not giving any fucks about the indigenous people there.

    But Stewart and Spiner wanted a light hearted script that dealt only superficially with the topic of the fountain of youth. So due to their meddling, the script became campy, with the "Insurrection" being only against one idiot Admiral, and boob/zit jokes. (I believe the original script did mean to have an insurrection against the entire Federation. I would have loved to see Picard tell Admiral Nechayev to fuck off :) )

    Alas we got what we got, a mediocre 2 part TNG episode with "victims" you just want to choke the living shit out of.
     
  18. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    As someone who thinks Nechayev is unfairly maligned simply because she tends to butt heads with Picard and isn't looking to make friends (see also Captain Jellico), I would have found it more poignant if she and Picard had found themselves on the same side, though perhaps for different reasons.
     
  19. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Sounds like the plot to Avatar TNG Style.
     
  20. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Is there no one posting on these boards who loves STAR TREK: Insurrection ... as much as I?