You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Lance, Nov 8, 2013.

  1. Lance

    Lance Commodore Commodore

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    The fact that the Son'a are such open-and-shut baddies from the very first time we see them.

    You know, good movie villains trade on ambiguity. Heck, even the Borg Queen had a more justifiable reason for her actions than the Son'a. Even Khan had that little thing about Marla McGivers' death, that gave him pathos and something we can empathize with. What have the Son'a got? Nothing. They're narcissists whose plain motivation is their own well-being. They're drawn as such BAD baddies that it stretches credibility that Starfleet would ever be stupid enough to fall in with them, Dominion War or no Dominion War.

    I mean, even if the movie had actually played the old predictable switcharoo and played the Son'a as being sympathetic to start with but only gradually unravel and become more villanous as their real plans become obvious, that I could've accepted. Or if Admiral Doughety had been portrayed as being duped along with the rest of us. But the movie plays the Son'a as villains from the very moment they first appear on screen, and Doughety is likewise painted as a corrupt Admiral. Sure, it's broad strokes. It makes it easier for dumbasses in the audience to understand who the good guys and bad guys are in this movie because they're hitting you over the head with a sign reading "THIS GUY = BAD" all the way through. But good characterization it was not. Good writing it was not. :vulcan:

    When even Riker and Troi's research into the Son'a leads them to wonder aloud why we're in bed with these guys, you know your story has gone wrong somewhere along the way.
     
  2. DonIago

    DonIago Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Given the moral ambiguity of the Baku it's probably for the best that the Son'a aren't played more ambiguous than they are.
     
  3. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

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    You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"? That it's a shitty movie? That is what irks me.
     
  4. LOKAI of CHERON

    LOKAI of CHERON Commodore Commodore

    But, Ru'afo was really good at popping veins and high pitched screaming.
     
  5. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

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    ^I thought he was also really good at skulking around looking pissed off all the time. The Son'a remind me of the nuclear holocaust survivors seen in Beneath the Planet of the Apes.

    --Sran
     
  6. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

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    What a terrible movie and missed opportunity.

    The only part of the movie I did like was the "Gilbert & Sullivan" routine.
     
  7. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    F. Murray Abraham must have been wondering what happened to his career after winning the Oscar.
     
  8. Lance

    Lance Commodore Commodore

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    :guffaw: Well yes, there is that as well I suppose. :D :techman:
     
  9. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Commodore Commodore

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    That was the only part I really disliked about INSURRECTION!

    I don't find it to be "a terrible movie," by any means. However, I do agree that there were some missed opportunities, here. But that's true of any STAR TREK.
     
  10. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

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    They missed way too much so they could make Picard an action hero "fighting the man" and chasing a piece of ass.

    The Making of Star Trek: Insurrection by Michael Piller is an awesome book and shows what a great movie there could have been had they not had Stewart and Spiner involved.
     
  11. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The ambiguities within the film are it's prime attribute. The Sona are evil, but it is they who will bring the health benefits of the rings to the common man in the federation. The beautiful Baku are the ones blocking this process.

    Picard's position seemingly is more based upon his personal admiration with the Baku lifestyle, than any legal or moral standpoint.

    Even at the film very end, we hear that the federation council ordered a review, but we never find out the review's outcome.


    :)
     
  12. publiusr

    publiusr Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The writings of the unabomber were topical then--and all the plastic surgery--it was a piece against consumer culture. I despised the Baku myself.
     
  13. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The Sona really weren't that bad. It was an hour into the movie before they did anything more menacing than bleed on Picard's carpet.
     
  14. Lance

    Lance Commodore Commodore

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    ^ They've got 'intergalactic assholes' written all over them from virtually the first scene they appear in. :D

    Mind you, I suppose that isn't really a reason for the Federation not to ally with them, is it? Seeing as the Federation seems to be full of intergalactic assholes itself (see any Admiral in the series, heck see the Admiral in this very movie!).
     
  15. DonIago

    DonIago Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The Federation was also in the midst of the most costly war it had ever experienced; it's not entirely surprising if they made some moral sacrifices along the way.
     
  16. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^Sisko certainly did.
     
  17. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

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    Which I think was the point. There are several lines of dialogue in the film suggesting how dire the situation has become due to the war with the Dominion. That the Federation would even consider aligning itself with the Son'a shows how badly they needed another ally. The irony was that the Son'a were in bed with the Dominion at the same time.

    --Sran
     
  18. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Or they could have made the Baku more likeable.

    I just thought they were smug bastards and had no sympathy for them.

    I just thought of the more likeable pre-Warp civilsations that Picard let perish over the years and the American Indians he moved from their spiritual home on orders from Starfleet
     
  19. Lance

    Lance Commodore Commodore

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    On some level I do wonder just how bad things 'got' that the Federation would sell out it's morals to a group so obviously bad as the Son'a. I know DS9 did touch on it slightly, it was certainly a dark time for the Federation. But it'd be interesting to see some the ramifications of that war. Were there Federation member worlds for example who actually seceded from the Federation? If enough of member worlds basically said "No, we understand the need to take these measures against the Dominion threat, but we do not support them" and they formally handed back their Federation membership cards, then I could understand how the Federation would be forced to court the likes of the Son'a. They'd need all the help they can get.

    But that's the only scenario I can imagine that happening in. If they had any other option available to them, I just don't buy it as believable that they'd fall in with the Son'a, given that the Son'a are drawn in the movie as being such genuinely nasty guys (and unashamedly so).



    Oh, totally agree. :) The Baku were assholes as well, though not intergalactically so (by choice).
     
  20. GalaxyX

    GalaxyX Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yup.

    I don't think the Ba'ku were worth saving. Picard got a hard on for Anji, and that was that though.
     

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