Yet another "Memory Wall" post

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Maab, Mar 10, 2013.

  1. Maab

    Maab Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Hi everybody,
    I have been reading this forum for a long time, but this is my first post.


    Like many other trekkers, I have always been fascinated (kind word for ‘obsessed’) with the lost ‘Memory Wall’ scene from The Motion Picture, since I first saw a picture of Kirk and Spock floating together (before Internet) and I asked myself “Where does THIS come from?”


    Now, many years later, my curiosity has been mostly satisfied, also thanks to Trek BBS and to the very well done Forgotten Trek website. However one thing that always bothered me is that I couldn’t find a single place where all the existing pictures of this lost footage where grouped together. Also in some cases the pictures used in some websites were incredibly small (example here). So I did just that. In the following page you can find a complete collection of Memory Wall pictures, all with a decent size (except one) and in many cases in high resolution. ‘Complete’ simply means all those I could find. For each picture I’ve also tried to indicate the source.


    Star Trek - The Motion Picture Memory Wall Pictures Collection


    There you’ll find no less than 150 images related to the Memory Wall scene.
    Help, corrections and suggestions are always welcome.
     
  2. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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  3. LOKAI of CHERON

    LOKAI of CHERON Commodore Commodore

    Great idea, Maab. I will be adding your page to my burgeoning list of Star Trek bookmarks!
     
  4. Maab

    Maab Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Wow, Therin, those proofsheets are fantastic! I’ve never seen them before!


    Especially the second one, I believe that it’s test footage for the part when Kirk and Spock move from the trench to the memory wall chamber. The scene was supposed to be shot from above as indicated in this sketch, to simulate the absence of gravity.


    May I add them to my page? With proper credits and links of course.


    For Lokai thanks for your nice words.


    Maab
     
  5. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    Sure! :bolian:
     
  6. Maab

    Maab Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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  7. mos6507

    mos6507 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Excellent work. Great to see this all in one place. I have mixed feelings about them not going with this. I suppose it would have just opened them up to criticism that it was a ripoff of Fantastic Voyage, while at the same time, if it had worked, it would have been visually stunning, not that Spock's walk isn't already stunning.
     
  8. Joker

    Joker Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Whatever happened to the alchemist footage?
     
  9. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Neat. Clearly a test since the set is obviously not finished.

    i wonder what the hell happened to that V'ger trench set. They manufactured all those pieces, and you'd think they'd have gotten reused someplace.
     
  10. Maab

    Maab Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Personally I prefer this version to the final one. It's more classic science fiction space action oriented and less "trip of mind" visual experience. But I agree to what Douglas Trumbull said, they would have never be able to do it, and if they did they would have spent the entire remaining budget for special effects. Think of all the things they had to do in post production: the swarms of floating sensor devices, the floating pyramids...


    Yes, and if you look to the big version there are a lot of interesting details. It's clearly visible the gear used to have the astronaut floating, there is a man at the hutch near the ladder. Also the spacesuit is missing few details like the directional thrusters in the front.


    Good question. Does anyone know why the footage wasn't released in the end?

    Maab
     
  11. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    Doe anyone else find those sets derivative of the interior of HAL 9000, with Kirk and Spock floating weightless in front of the memory wall, to boot?
     
  12. Joe_Atari

    Joe_Atari Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Mmmmm, loves me some Memory Wall. :drool: Great job; thanks Maab!
     
  13. trevanian

    trevanian Rear Admiral

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    Mike Minor mentioned using lots of bits left over from TMP on TWOK, but a lot of the memory wall stuff looks pretty distinctive ... I would imagine it would be identifiable even if paintedover and opaqued. Then again, if you used the BACKSIDE of those pieces ... who knows? I've often wondered about the model buildings outside of Kirk's apartment, which Minor supposedly had assembled from leftover TMP stuff.
     
  14. Maab

    Maab Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Not the first thing to come to my mind, but there could have been some ispiration. Also the spacesuits' helmets are vaguely similar.

    :bolian:

    [​IMG]


    Mmm... maybe the one on the left has some pieces of the memory wall panels?

    Maab
     
  15. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That cyclorama is left over from The Towering Inferno, and based on the views of it from Kirk's apartment that places his address at roughly at 655 Market Street. Just FYI. ;)
     
  16. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    Awesome. So, pardon my ignorance, but would the cyclorama be stored rolled up?
     
  17. Lance

    Lance Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    This is an excellent effort Maab. I truly enjoyed looking through all of those. :bolian: I've got mixed feelings about the Memory Wall sequence, but I think on some level it could have been better than what we got. I especially like the idea of how it allows some solid bonding between Kirk and Spock (Spock turns back from his self-imposed 'mission' to save Kirk from the cocoon, reminding us of all the times they'd done something similar on landing parties in TOS) which I feel the sickbay scene in the finished movie doesn't quite manage to do. Kirk's attitude during the sickbay scene always came across as unncessarily harsh to me, pressing Spock for answers; while Spock's delighted expression also struck me as being out of character, even if he did find what he saw when he melded with V'ger to be truly mind blowing.
     
  18. Maab

    Maab Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Thanks! I agree with you 100%. Spock going alone inside V’Ger makes the all scene more “cold”, which is one of the problem of the movie. Furthermore, shall we mention the fact that it seems at least unlikely that an unconscious Spock (without the thruster) would travel all the way back, passing through the opening and closing doors (what are they for anyway?) ending up just in Kirk’s arms?


    Impressive :lol:

    That would me my guess too.

    Since nobody answered I guess no explanation was given. Who knows if the footage will ever be released.

    One last question: does anybody know where to find a better version of this picture?

    [​IMG]

    Maab

    Star Trek The Motion Picture - Memory Wall Pictures Collection
     
  19. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    Well, the only way I was able to accept how Spock ends up back at the Enterprise was that V'Ger tossed him back.

    V'Ger doing that indicates yet another weakness in the story, not really just because he sends Spock back, if that's what happened, but because we never get a direct sense of why V'Ger would do that. The implication would be that V'Ger got something from Spock, as similarly Spock got something from V'Ger. Spock realized that purging his emotions was not the right path for him; I can only deduce that V'Ger must have perceived that Spock was more than simply a carbon unit, and that returning Spock to the ship must have somehow been essential to finding the Creator. Unfortunately, none of that dealt with explicitly in the film, and the fact that Kirk must use his argue-with-the-machine superpowers, to bargain a way deeper inside V'Ger, while the threat of digitizing Earth looms, all supports the idea that V'Ger made no connection with Spock at all. Maybe it was only an infinitesimal connection?

    Since looking at this thread, I began daydreaming what it would have looked like, if, instead of Spock going through the orifice alone as in TMP, what if Kirk and Spock and gone through together? Yeah, there would be details to iron out, like not burning up all their combined fuel initially, but going through together could have demonstrated them bonding. So, basically, Kirk follows Spock out, but he gets to Spock before Spock has fired off his thruster pack. Then, they go in together; Kirk can even make a little joke before they go that he hopes Spock times the opening and closing of the orifice correctly. Once inside, instead of Spock talking into his log recorder, he and Kirk discuss what they are seeing together. So, after the mind meld, Kirk brings them back with the remaining fuel.

    I really agree that them going into V'Ger together and escaping together would have vastly, vastly improved the scene in sickbay where they hold hands. Plus, the sickbay scene could've been sped up, too, I think.
     
  20. mos6507

    mos6507 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I always interpreted that as V'Ger having spit Spock out again via a tractor beam, after he became aware of him via the Mind Meld. It would have been better to show it, if that were the intent.

    I think most people interpreted that thing as sphincter-like (cue the snickering). It could also be seen as a heart ventricle.

    Even without the memory-wall, there's Fantastic Voyage analogues to be found.

    ==
    I really agree that them going into V'Ger together and escaping together would have vastly, vastly improved the scene in sickbay where they hold hands. Plus, the sickbay scene could've been sped up, too, I think.
    ==

    I happen to really like the hand-holding scene, in fact I think it's the linchpin of the whole movie, yes, even with Kirk acting stiff. It's hard to know what it would be like without it. You'd have to watch the whole thing through in an alternate cut, kind of like comparing the Donner cut of Superman II.