Yesterday's Enterprise timeline

Discussion in 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' started by los2188, Sep 21, 2012.

  1. Unicron

    Unicron Continuity Spackle Moderator

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    Because the changes in the alternate timeline occurred when she was an adult, and created a "new" history where Tasha served aboard the Enterprise longer and the war meant the Enterprise likely didn't perform some of the same missions it did in the proper timeline. To use my previous example, one of the problems with retconning the AoA into a parallel earth is that the choices of some characters were based on it being an altered 616 earth with a new timeline based on Legion's changes. Colossus, who was a rather unstable individual in the AoA, left most of his team to die at the hands of Apocalypse's forces because he didn't want Bishop to restore the "proper" history. If that occurred, his sister Magik (who never gained some of her normal powers in the AoA because she never encountered Belasco), would be dead from the Legacy Virus (which had already been unleashed by the time Legion tried to kill Magneto). Colossus wanted her to remain alive, and cared so little about other things that he accidentally killed Shadowcat when she tried to reason with him.

    It's a fine line between arguing for a predestination paradox (and I see where MLB is going with that) and arguing for an alternate future where many things are still conveniently similar, like most of the E-D crew still serving on the same ship in the same positions. It's a less radical shift than what's depicted in the AoA, but that wouldn't preclude the possibility of a character from that timeline ending up in the "normal" present after Bishop had restored things. That's essentially what happened with Blink's AoA counterpart, who was separated from her home reality to join the Exiles. Her 616 counterpart was only introduced later, and then for a short time before she was seemingly killed trying to stop the Phalanx. Only more recently did she reappear as one of Selene's followers, having become a vicious killer who believes the X-Men "abandoned" her to her fate and didn't try to save her.
     
  2. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    I don't know if that helps, but since this thread is reminding me of various problems, I had gotten used to forget or ignore, reconsidering the issue I now come up with a one letter explanation: Q

    Two episodes prior to "Yesterday's Enterprise" Guinan assaulted Q with a fork causing him considerable pain and despite Q's good mood at the end of "Déjà Q" I can't help but wonder if omnipotent Q simply forgave Guinan her assault on him.

    After all, it's Guinan who's facing the biggest challenge in "Yesterday's Enterprise", i.e. persuading Captain Picard that he has to send the Enterprise-C back in time to restore the correct course of events.
    And she probably is well aware that she's also struggling for her own existence: Since the timeline has also been changed back to the 23rd Century (!) and we see a powerful Klingon Empire where Praxis probably did not explode (ST VI) it's doubtful that there would have ever been an Enterprise-B coming to Guinan's rescue (ST VII).
    While she may be aware that this is another of Q's doing, there is no point bringing it up to the Captain Picard of the alternate timeline who has never heard of or met a Q.

    The whole business with Tasha is another thing that could hint this direction. Though Q put her in a "penalty box" in "Hide and Q" he quickly lifted this kind of punishment.
    At the end of "Déjà Q" he left Data with a gift but not the others. Being aware of the crew's sympathies for Tasha (unless he had a crush for her himself), he may have been inclined to create a scenario where Tasha's death would at least have a meaning rather than her stupid freak accident death in "Skin of Evil".

    Just my 0.02$

    Bob
     
  3. Seven of Five

    Seven of Five Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I don't think that quite works out right. Praxis' explosion happened fifty years befoe the Enterprise C battled the Romulans.

    As to the technicalities of the timelines in the OP, I would suggest that the Tasha timeline is the alternate one. It completely deviated from the one we had been watching for the previous two and a half seasons. The only way the alternate timeline exists is when the Enterprise C emerges from the rift, and it ceases to exist when it goes back. The actual timeline is therefore always the corrected one.
     
  4. los2188

    los2188 Commander Red Shirt

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    So as I've suggested before in another thread, with all of this said, is it unreasonable to think that in Trek 09 that maybe at the end of the movie run or whatever, the altered timeline will some way be merged back into the prime timeline? Would that even be possible?
     
  5. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    There has to be an explanation why the Klingon Empire is so powerful in the alternate timeline with the Federation on the verge of defeat, while in the "real" reality it's there but no longer such an important player (possibly because of Praxis' explosion).

    If Q had a hand in these events, there's no telling how much he actually changed the original timeline. And to have most of the "real" Enterprise's crew working as a team in the alternate timeline, too, is such a colossal coincidence and so highly improbable, that it's rather likely than unlikely that Q had something to do with it.

    Bob
     
  6. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    As has been pointed out, Praxis happened decades before the events of this episode. So its destruction must exist in both timelines.

    Perhaps in the war future, the Klingons were so pissed off that it motivated them to go all-out in their war with the Federation? They could have embarked on a massive shipbuilding campaign that didn't happen in the 'real' timeline.
     
  7. Unicron

    Unicron Continuity Spackle Moderator

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    It's also mentioned that the war dragged on for two decades, with the Feds still able to win at least some minor victories even while nearing defeat (Riker mentions the Klingons were trounced at the alternate Archer IV). That suggests the war was based on attrition to some extent, and other powers might have helped one faction or the other even if they didn't directly get involved (which would widen the war, not necessarily desirable).
     
  8. MikeS

    MikeS Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    This.

    As mentioned before it is easier to think of this from the perspective of the "C".

    Think of it like this....

    --------------- - - - - - - - - - - -
    ************\
    *************\
    **************\_____________________

    Copyright Dr. Brown circa 1988
     
  9. UssGlenn

    UssGlenn Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The Klingon War timeline is the original timeline. The Enterprise C disappears and history continues without interference to the war outcome. Then it appears in the future and is sent back, creating the history we all had been watching on TV.
     
  10. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    That's how I'd think of it too, except it doesn't explain the visual shift at the beginning, nor Guinan's knowledge of the TNG history.

    This episode reminds me of "Yesteryear" - good, but the time travel makes no sense whatsoever.
     
  11. Bob Morton

    Bob Morton Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    This is the way I think of it as well. It also reminds me of 'Cause and Effect'. Maybe the Prime timeline is the way it is because Bateson was never sent back to his own time. Either that or the Bozeman never achieved anything of consequence.
     
  12. MikeS

    MikeS Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The Bozeman never achieved anything of consequence precicely because it was removed from history.
     
  13. Ryan8bit

    Ryan8bit Commodore Commodore

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    What Star Trek episode or movie ever made complete sense in regards to time travel?
     
  14. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It's important to point out that the temporal rift that caused all this was not generated from the future. It didn't reach back in time and yank the Enterprise-C forward, it originated in the C's time and PUSHED it forward. It was in that ship's present, as it were. Thus, like I said, there could never be a timeline where the rift didn't occur at all.

    If the rift HAD originated in the future - in 2366, where TNG was at that point in the series - then of course there would have been an original timeline with no rift at all. But this is not the case.

    Even the episodes of TNG that were made and aired before "Yesterday's Enterprise" - they all took place in a timeline where the Ent-C had returned from the "war future" and sacrificed itself. Anyone in those episodes would of course have no idea what was about to happen, but it still did.

    Indeed, it's debatable whether or not the Ent-C could have even done anything in the battle with the Romulans if it didn't make that brief jaunt to alt-2366. Look at how banged up it was when we first saw it...