Yeoman Rand & Production order

Discussion in 'Star Trek - Original Series' started by EnriqueH, Jul 18, 2014.

  1. Marsden

    Marsden Commodore Commodore

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    I didn't like those too much, but I only remember her saying that in very scary situations, so maybe I'm making excuses, but it could be she isn't embarassed by her feelings. After all, if anybody like Sulu or McCoy said, "I'm scared" the torrent of Whimp! s would be deafening. Men aren't allowed to be scared.


    I'm not going to tell you what you saw, but I saw something different. McGivers didn't have the stomach to see Joachim beat Uhura anymore and saved herself. Uhura didn't look like she needed to be saved, she looked like she was about to beat him if she could just figure a way out how to do it. She only showed sorrow when Khan said Kirk was dead.

    Well, she did in the animated episode "The Lorelei Signal" I'm not sure if you count that, I do. It was the best part of the episode, she just doesn't assume command, she seizes it. Kirk and Spock are gone and Sulu and Scott are incapacitated but still on the bridge so she just takes command and tells them she's in charge. But it would have been nice in a live action episode, she doesn't do nearly that much in the movies, either.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2014
  2. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    ^There's no good reason not to count the animated series. It was produced under Roddenberry's total creative control, many TOS veterans worked on it, and it was intended as a direct and authentic continuation of the series, just with a slight change in format and approach. Heck, it was even titled just Star Trek, whereas Filmation adaptations of live-action shows generally had changed titles like The New Adventures of... whatever. That drives home that the intent was simply to pick up where the live-action show left off. The legal kerfuffle that led to its temporary decanonization was resolved decades ago, and it's now officially counted as part of the franchise even in "canon-only" sources like StarTrek.com and Memory Alpha. As far as I'm concerned, it's seasons 4 and 5.

    Uhura also seemed to be in command of the bridge in "BEM," I think it was, but she wasn't sitting in the command chair and it wasn't made explicit.
     
  3. Ssosmcin

    Ssosmcin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yes! Brought to us in part by Caps Comic Cavalcade! And Leader Business Systems!

    My god, man, I loved those Saturday night three-fers. What great times... Eventually, though, they did switch to the cuts, 46 minute versions. Which sucked, but man, no commercials.

    Found this:

    [yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ecy2Zf6uP2g[/yt]
     
  4. Marsden

    Marsden Commodore Commodore

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    Sorry if I'm posting in too old a thread, but it took me some time to watch these.

    The episodes in production order:

    1. The Cage. Not here.
    2. Where No Man Has Gone Before. Same note
    3. The Corbomite Maneuver.
    Here she is for the first time. She brings the Captain dinner and his coffee, didn't get too much to do but she seems professional, certainly not a ditzy secretary type.

    4. Mudd's Women. Not here again.
    5. The Enemy Within.

    This really is the first episode she get some more screen time and her own quarters. She start out just the competent assistant but then dark Kirk wants more from her. She really didn't get to do much but defend herself and look annoyed at the end with Spock's strange comment.

    6. The Man Trap.

    This is the first time she really is allowed to be herself, and also shows to be fully one of the crew, even though she's still delivering lunch, she's very familiar with most of the officers and fits in well. I wonder how long she and Sulu were together that day. Was she Sulu's yeoman for the day?

    7. The Naked Time.

    This time she almost seems to be Spock's assistant because she is organizing his data tapes and handing them to him. Interestingly, she is one of the few people not affected at all by the disease(? I'm not sure what to call it, condition?). It's strange that Spock calls "Leslie" Rand, (I don't think he was actually Leslie yet). Was she supposed to be in that scene, Harvey or one of the others would probably fill that in, but she does take over later at Kirk's order, so I wound think she'd be in that same exact position twice and be so surprised the second time. Also interesting, Captain Kirk reaffirms his attraction to her, but despite the "removal of inhibitions" he really doesn't do anything but mutter in her direction briefly.

    8. Charlie X.

    This is another big one for her, she gets plenty of screen time being the first woman Charlie sees and he imprints on her almost immediately. While she's going about her business, in this episode, she really seems to be the "strong female presence" amongst the crew, even more that Uhura. Almost like she would be Charlie's mother figure to Kirk's father figure, too bad Charlie listened to The End too many times.

    9. Balance of Terror.

    She talks to the Captain twice, about log entries in which she ends up being hugged and clinging to him for a shot and later to check on him to make sure he's served if he wants anything from the galley.

    10. What Are Little Girls Made Of?

    11. Dagger of the Mind.

    She's not in either of these, and I don't see where she could have fit. Anyone who implied Helen Noel was a replacement was wrong, she couldn't have taken that place. Christine gets her episode, again no place for Janice, Spock is hardly even in that one.

    12. Miri.

    Janice's last hurrah. She really does seem to be the "mother" figure again. And her attraction to Kirk is forced to the surface by her suffering from the disease and facing premature death. As I was discussing earlier, I don't find this particular portrayal to be bad, but it was more typical of the time of the woman to be "in need" of the man's attention. I also just realized though that this particular scene is what shakes Miri's devotion to Kirk when she sees Kirk try to comfort Janice, so it really is relevant to the plot and not just a filler type thing.

    13. The Conscience of the King.

    Well, she's barely in it and doesn't say anything.

    Summing up, she's in it less than I remembered. Also, she really doesn't strike me as the "number 4 of the big 4" that she was supposed to be, but she did seem more important in at least 2 maybe 3 episodes than Uhura or Christine really ever was. But I didn't really notice any kind of arc. The only thing that might, just possibly, was that after the Miri incident she couldn't stand to look at Kirk anymore and transferred away to another ship.
     
  5. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    "Mudd's Women" is a weird one. Despite Uhura's token presence, the episode seems to be written under the assumption that the Enterprise crew consists entirely of men who haven't seen a woman in months. Okay, there's a passing reference to "the male members of my crew" implying there are women, and it's supposed to be the Venus drug that's making the men so gaga, but as far as I recall, we don't actually see any female crew other than Uhura, so it feels like an old-fashioned story about lonely sailors reacting to the anomalous presence of females aboard their ship.


    Not just a strange comment but a horrible one. He was basically saying, "Yeah, but you kinda liked that guy who tried to rape you, right?" It's the kind of joke that wouldn't have been unusual among men in the '60s but that we now see as incredibly insensitive. This and "Mudd's Women" are both shockingly sexist, on a level we probably don't see again until "Turnabout Intruder."


    Since they were having a meal together, I always assumed they were off duty.


    It was transmitted by touch, so I guess none of the affected crew touched her. McCoy wasn't affected either.


    It's ambiguous whether he said "Rand" or "Ryan." Some sources have called Paskey's character Ryan Leslie because of this.


    That's because he's already overcome the effect through sheer willpower by the time he sees her again.


    Was it bad as a plot point in a 1960s television episode? I guess not. But as the characterization of a 23rd-century woman, as seen by 21st-century audiences, it's kind of regrettable.
     
  6. LMFAOschwarz

    LMFAOschwarz Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    You lost me on that one. I didn't know that "when I came aboard" was part of the song lyrics. :lol:

    What is it with the blonde female characters that they can't last a series? Rank, Tasha, Kes...weird.
     
  7. Marsden

    Marsden Commodore Commodore

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    Charlie awoke before dawn, he put his boots on
    He made a weird face
    And he walked on down the hall
    He went into the room where Sulu lived, and...then he
    Paid a visit to Scott, and then he
    He walked on down the hall, and
    And he came to a door...and he looked inside
    Kirk, yes Charlie, I want to kill you*
    Janice...I want to..:censored::censored::censored::censored::censored:


    * Because taking his ship away from him would kill him. As a refrence listen to I'm Your Captain/Closer To Home.


    That earthquake in France is Jim Morrison spining in his grave.
     
  8. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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    Rand was pretty much a Chuck Cunningham. A character that the creator realized wasn't all that useful and interesting. So they sent her below decks, never to return. ( til the movies)
     
  9. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    There are conflicting stories as to why she left, and I don't think that's one of them. According to Memory Alpha:

    I think it's safe to say that Roddenberry's tame explanation is the one least likely to be true. But it seems like the reasons for her dismissal had nothing to do with how well the character was working out.
     
  10. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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    Could be a combination of factors. But judging how the character was/wasn't being used I think the realization that the Yeoman character wasn't a good one is part of it.
     
  11. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    She was used no more or less than one would expect of a supporting character in a 1960s television series. Be careful not to judge TOS by today's ensemble-cast standards. Only Kirk and Spock were guaranteed starring roles every week, and everyone else was generally just there to support the two stars.

    Out of the 11 episodes of Rand's time on the series ("Corbomite Maneuver" through "Conscience of the King"), she was present in 8 and played a significant role in 4. In that same interval, Sulu was in 6 of those episodes and had a sizeable role in maybe 3, while Scotty was present in only 5 episodes and didn't really have a role beyond technical exposition in any of them, with "The Enemy Within" and "The Naked Time" being the only ones where his technical role is all that important. So your claim that Rand wasn't being used just doesn't add up. For the duration of her run, she was used more heavily than anyone except Kirk, Spock, and McCoy.

    Besides, they certainly didn't drop the concept of a yeoman. Yeoman characters continued to feature in numerous subsequent episodes, often written into scripts that had been meant for Rand. So it wasn't the idea of a yeoman character they had a problem with.
     
  12. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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    I got the impression Rand was supposed to be a "secondary character" like McCoy rather than a supporting character along the lines of Scotty or Uhura. The Captain's Yeoman seemed prominent in the outlines for the show. But once the show went into production the need for the character seemed to diminish. Scotty as the Chief Engineer became more important to the plots and the Engineer character isn't one featured in the original outlines for the show.
     
  13. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    Man, the more I look at Rand's wig, the more ridiculous it looks. I can't imagine that it helped taking her seriously, even back in the 60s.
     
  14. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    As I've established, Scotty was one of the least prominent characters during the 11-episode span when Rand was present. He's the only one to appear in fewer than half of those episodes. (Uhura was at least seen or heard in every one except "Miri," even though she had little to do.) So Scotty didn't begin to grow in prominence until after Rand was already gone. It's not as if he crowded her out or something.

    So focusing on just those 11 episodes, the order of character significance seems to be: Kirk, Spock, McCoy, Rand, Sulu, Scott, Uhura -- although Scott and Uhura could be flipped if you go by number of appearances rather than story prominence. There is simply no basis for the belief that Rand was underutilized or overshadowed by other characters. Rather, she was dropped for reasons that probably had nothing to do with the character -- either because of Whitney's drug use, because of her alleged sexual assault by a producer, because of budget cuts, or as a combination of those factors -- and her departure then created a void that allowed other characters to grow in prominence.

    The only character-based reason I've ever heard as a potential explanation for Rand's departure was that someone thought it was a bad idea to saddle Kirk with an ongoing love interest and wanted him free to have romances-of-the-week. This is plausible, considering that many TV love-interest characters in the '60s through the '90s were dropped for just that reason. But if that were a factor, it would mean that the character was dropped for becoming too prominent, too important to Kirk, rather than the reverse.
     
  15. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    We got one of those from Chekov in The Deadly Years. He screamed like a child and ran from the room.

    :)
     
  16. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    If that's why she was dropped, then it would be yet another indication that Star Trek wasn't really progressive: male characters got to be doctors, engineers, helmsmen, etc., but they couldn't conceive of Rand being anything other than the love interest of the lead male character.
     
  17. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

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    Interestingly enough, the regulars during the first half of season one, were (from greatest pay to least) Shatner, Nimoy, Kelley, Whitney, and Takei. Doohan was contracted as a recurring player and Nichols was a simple day player.

    In other words, character significance seems to line up fairly close to contractual significance.

    Carry on...
     
  18. Marsden

    Marsden Commodore Commodore

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    I know one person's hearing isn't more definitive than another's, but my ears, and my closed caption, clearly heard "RAND" I'd accept that explanation if it wasn't Mr. Spock (Nimoy) that said it, but he spoke very clearly and didn't mush sylables together like someone else sometimes did.

    I really wish they never put that huge wig on her head. Was Rand some kind of humanoid alien that carried her egg sac on her head? She had perfectly nice hair herself, I'm guessing after buying that monstrosity they saved on a hairdresser for the women, I think all three had wigs on.

    We can take this one step further and play "Who is the Rand Replacement?"

    She could have been in Galileo Seven instead of Mears, but I'd have a hard time seeing her be the same in that role. Mears was very minor, almost to be negligible. I certainly don't see her bunny hopping onto the floor when excited.

    She could have been good in Court Martial replacing the personnel officer, but would that have worked? Janice was not the personnel officer, but I'm sure her duties could have expanded if the script needed to. Plus, what was Janice's rank? The personnel officer was an Ensign, so she had a rank, but no name.

    She wouldn't really have much to do in Menagerie, but she could have fit.

    I can't see her being kissy with Bones in Shore leave, but that could have been adjusted. But this is starting to be a problem, I didn't mention it in Court Martial just above, but Kirk was cuddling up to Shaw, and now he's got a "Ruth". If Rand felt the way she stated in Miri, what would that mean on a planet that reads your mind and builds you something? Would it have made her a Kirk that wasn't so married to his ship? I also wonder if those constructs work off of the planet, could Kirk have took Ruth back to the ship and kept her in the closet like Bud Bundy kept his "girlfriend" in his room?

    I think she could have fit in The Squire of Gothos replacing Yeoman Teresa Ross, but her attitude would need to change to fit Rand, I don't see her being so chummy with Trelane like Ross was. These are all in my opinion, of course.

    They didn't bring any women down to Landru's planet, or Janus IV, or Orgainia.

    I don't know if we want to beat this horse all the way through the first season, but I'm not sure if she would have fit in many more. Maybe they were right to get rid of her, after all. I'm still unhappy with it, but I don't see that many that she would have fit in, certainly not without some adjustments, which may not be justified just to keep her there.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2014
  19. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I think you're overlooking how routinely scripts get rewritten. The dialogue after Rand was replaced was not the same as it would've been if she'd stuck around, because it was rewritten to accommodate whatever new characters were put in her place.

    According to Memory Alpha, Rand was in the original "Galileo Seven" script. She was also going to be in "Dagger of the Mind," and the Helen Noel character was created to replace her there (interesting, considering that it was produced just before "Miri," one of her biggest episodes). She was going to be in "Shore Leave," and her scenes with Kirk were rewritten for McCoy when Barrows was put in her place. And we know that she was in Ellison's first draft of "City on the Edge of Forever."
     
  20. Doug Otte

    Doug Otte Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    This was the reason I heard/read for many years until the substance abuse/sexual assault stories started appearing. I also think it seems the most likely. Who first put forth this reason? I think it was Roddenberry.

    And, I always liked Rand's wig. It was otherworldly and "futuristic." When I was a kid, I thought it was her real hair, and wondered how they got it in that awesome basket weave!