X-Men (2000): still a darned good flick

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Gaith, Nov 2, 2011.

  1. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    January 20, 2013, technically.
     
  2. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    I'm not saying that all mutants should be put into interment camps, but there should be a record about who is a mutant or not. That isn't any different from a doctor putting down the race of the child on a birth certificate.
     
  3. Broccoli

    Broccoli Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I brought up the Scott/Jean point earlier on how that was contradicted as early as X2.

    You may not like it, but that doesn't make X2 any less valid a title. Honestly, though it is silly (well, as silly as anything that stems from an X-Men comic book), I've always looked at that title as reflecting the duality the film presents with its characters and situations.

    Also, "United" is a very good description as the term X-Men is generally broadened to be synonymous with mutant. Both mutant "good guys" and "bad guys" unite against the thread of Stryker, a human.
     
  4. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    And it can be argued that there's no scientifically valid definition of race so even that practice is questionable. And it's even more problematical trying to define a mutant. Like I said, everyone's got mutant genes of some sort. If you can drink milk as an adult, or if you have blue eyes or red hair, then you're a mutant in literal genetic fact. So where can you validly draw the line between Homo sapiens and Homo superior? This shouldn't be treated as a trivial issue, because there's immense potential for abuse and error.
     
  5. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    While I agree with everything Christopher said here (and I should emphasize that I completely agree), within the universe of the film series there is evidently a scientifically accurate means to distinguish the so-called mutants from normal humans.
    • In X2 [that's actually the full official name of the film as given on screen], Cerebro can locate and distinguish between mutants and normal humans.
    • In the first film X-Men, Magneto's machine mutates normal humans, but does not affect mutants.
    • In X-Men: The Last Stand, the cure that is derived from Jimmy targets specific individuals, and nothing in that film even remotely hints that these individuals are not precisely those whom all the characters identify as "mutants". Jimmy depowers mutants and doesn't affect normal humans at all. [Note: The very concept of depowering implies a baseline that is regarded as "normal".]

    Indeed from the first film, we learn of the X-factor. From http://www.imsdb.com/scripts/X-Men.html:

    Unfortunately, the film series didn't really shed any light on why the new stage in evolution was occurring.
     
  6. TremblingBluStar

    TremblingBluStar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, but Obama hasn't suddenly become something other than human. If he one day revealed he's an alien, don't you think people would demand his removal?
    I'm not even going to touch this one! :lol:

    Technically, people vote on election day.

    Of course, Obama is going to be reelected, so this is a moot point. :)
     
  7. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    But the question was when people can expect to "get rid of" Obama. Even if voted out of office he remains the president until January 20, 2013.
     
  8. Captaindemotion

    Captaindemotion Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^ But they actually take the step of 'getting rid' of him on election day - that sets in motion a process which ends on inauguration day. The people, the electorate, don't do anything on the latter.
     
  9. Wereghost

    Wereghost Part-time poltergeist Rear Admiral

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    Deals can still be signed in those few weeks. If there's a change of party, the Prez can commit the next administration to policies that may prove unpopular - souring the milk, basically.
     
  10. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I interpreted it as when the people are rid of him, not when they do anything.
     
  11. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    One more time:

    There is a Constitution.

    This is a nation of laws, not mob rule. People can't get rid of presidents they don't like just by "demanding" it. If it's an election year, they can do it by voting them out of office. Otherwise, the only legal way to do it is by impeachment and conviction for "treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors."

    Of course, if a sitting president were revealed to be an alien in the literal sense, i.e. someone not born in the United States, then his or her election would have been fraudulent, and that would probably fall under "high crimes and misdemeanors" and be an impeachable offense. But if a president who was provably a native of the United States were subjected to a mutation ray and genetically altered in some way, that would not be actionable under the Constitution. In order to be eligible for the presidency of the United States, the Constitution only requires you to be:

    1) A person.
    2) A "natural born citizen" of the United States.
    3) At least 35 years of age.
    4) Resident within the United States for at least 14 years.

    Now, "person" is generally assumed to mean "human being," but that's not a strict legal definition. In law, a corporation, a labor organization, etc. can be defined as a person. As Wikipedia puts it, "A person is recognized by law as such, not because he is human, but because rights and duties are ascribed to him. The person is the legal subject or substance of which the rights and duties are attributes." If an individual of any species could be demonstrated to possess the consciousness and agency commensurate with those rights and duties, then an objective court would be likely to rule that individual as a person.

    Not to mention that we don't even have a specific legal definition of "human" anyway. "Person" is legally defined, but "human" is not. So if Magneto's device changed the President into something that was no longer genetically Homo sapiens, that wouldn't have any legal impact on the President's personhood and therefore on his or her eligibility for the office. People might not like it, but they couldn't do anything about it until the next election.

    Same if the President were a member of an extraterrestrial ("alien") species but had been born in the United States and resided there for at least 14 years out of at least 35 years of life. For instance, in John Byrne's version of Superman's origin, he wasn't technically born (i.e. decanted from his gestation matrix) until he landed in Kansas, so he was eligible for the Presidency, as we were shown in a "possible future" storyline.
     
  12. Captaindemotion

    Captaindemotion Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re-read the original post:

    I added the bold face added to show that what Christopher meant was that the people cannot do something about getting rid of their leaders until election day. That's when they get to exercise their mandate and do something about their views on Obama.

    If he'd said 'they won't be rid of him' then your interpretation would be correct.
     
  13. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    That's what I meant, yes. The action of voting out a president is taken on Election Day, even if that decision doesn't take effect until later.
     
  14. Broccoli

    Broccoli Vice Admiral Admiral

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    How did this go from X-Men to the ins-and-outs of a US president's removal?
     
  15. Captaindemotion

    Captaindemotion Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^ You're surprised that a thread's taken a detour? Have you been on the BBS before?!
     
  16. Broccoli

    Broccoli Vice Admiral Admiral

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    No, I'm new here. This BBS is about that old Ed McMahon show, right?
     
  17. Captaindemotion

    Captaindemotion Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^ I thought it was Gilligan's Island...
     
  18. Broccoli

    Broccoli Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Same thing, isn't it?
     
  19. Wereghost

    Wereghost Part-time poltergeist Rear Admiral

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    I kind of assumed it was a Fantastic Journey fan BBS. ;)
     
  20. Chris_Johnston

    Chris_Johnston Captain Captain

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    It's even less often that you hear a film critic complain about too much character development!