WTH is the NCC1701-D "the Flagship"?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' started by xvicente, Apr 1, 2014.

  1. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    One other thing to consider, the meanings of words change overtime. So today as stated above flagship can refer to the pre-eminant thing. i.e Flagship stoire. Who knows by the 24th century this meaning could have become the primary meaning of the word.
     
  2. Skywalker

    Skywalker Admiral Admiral

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    "Lesser series"? Nice.
     
  3. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    ...Or, after the encounter at Farpoint, Starfleet reevaluated the whole concept of exploring deep space beyond Deneb, and decided it was safer to stick closer to home after all. Which is why the E-D doesn't do the "where no one has gone before" stuff in the first season, either (except in the episode of that name, and that was by accident).

    Quite possibly. Or then it's just that any Galaxy is a natural fleet kingpin wherever she sails, and there aren't any adventures where a fleet would have to choose between two available Galaxies because a) the camera follows the Enterprise and b) there are very few Galaxies to begin with, and even fewer survive their encounter with the Enterprise!

    We have seen other types of starship used as flagship - the Gorkon supposedly was an Excelsior, even if it wasn't perfectly explicit that the ship of that class we saw in the establishing shots of "Descent" actually was the Gorkon.

    One wonders what class the unseen flagship in ST:FC was, in a fleet that also included at least one giant Nebula class vessel... Or what sort of a ship the Melbourne in "BoBW" was supposed to be, as she, too, led a fleet featuring Nebula class behemoths. Perhaps it isn't all that unusual for older and/or smaller ship types to lead formations?

    Reusing a registry is a strange way to "honor" a ship anyway. What next, give the next ship down the line the old shuttles of the predecessor?

    We do supposedly have the Yamato, NCC-1305, honored the same way...

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  4. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    I do think a good rationalization is possible, if we look at some of the accomplishments of the TOS Enterprise humiliating the Romulans:

    • crippled a Romulan Bird of Prey testing a cloaking device and a new weapons system near the Neutral Zone ("Balance of Terror")
    • apparently had further (successful) skirmishes with Romulan ships (Sulu in "The Deadly Years")
    • defeated a Romulan ship near Tau Ceti ("Whom Gods Destroy")
    • escaped Romulan Birds of Prey with the "Corbomite Bluff" ("The Deadly Years")
    • stole Rumulan cloaking device ("The Enterprise Incident")
    If Enterprise's name and registry didn't send a strong psychological signal to the Romulans I don't know.

    • Enterprise-C impeded a Romulan ploy attempting to start a Klingon-Federation war and
    • Enterprise-D was the ship establishing contact with the Romulans again in 2364
    For the same reason the USS Yamato could have been the hero ship of the Battle of Donatu V.

    Of course, by the mid 24th Century the Klingons were the "nice guys", too, so there was no further reason to remind them of the accomplishments of the Yamato. :klingon:

    Bob
     
  5. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    I simply think the -A thing was created because the Council wanted Starfleet to give Kirk a second NCC-1701 as a symbolic gesture, but the bureaucrats could not tolerate the idea of two different ships having the exact same registry. The -B then followed because it's tradition, and you don't challenge tradition...

    It's not the ship that's being honored, it's Kirk, the first time around.

    (Wouldn't explain NCC-1305-E, though, unless Captain Okita got given a replica of his old starship, too.)

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  6. Shon T'Hara

    Shon T'Hara Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    No need to suppose that when we know the original Yamato saved the Earth on mutliple occasions, such as when the Gamilons bombarded the Earth with radioactive meteors, or when the Comet Empire invaded the Milky Way.
     
  7. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    And then there was the time the Yamato Monsters saved Japan from Godzilla...
     
  8. Lance

    Lance Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Not to mention that if the Enterprise-D went down in battle, then the fleet's so-called "best and brightest" would all go down with it.

    Oh definitely. One of my favourite things about TOS was how Enterprise was 'just another ship', it wasn't seen (in universe) as being anything more special than any other. But as you say, Roddenberry's 'fetishization' of the Enterprise in-verse in his novel of TMP seemed to open the floodgates towards her being seen as a 'special' ship, and her crew as 'living legends'. IMO it actually makes them less interesting.
     
  9. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    Now we're ditched. Do we prefer an Enterprise-centric vision for Star Trek or a Kirk-centric one? :rolleyes: (Personally, I go with the first since I've heard only good things about either Captain April or Pike)

    In my world, the prefix "13" would indicate a Baton Rouge Class starship, possibly suceeded by a sister ship of the TOS Enterprise, NCC-1305(-B).

    Here is my try to rationalize the registry inconsistency in TNG:

    WORF: Captain, there's another vessel approaching in sector zero nine one, mark two six.
    PICARD: On screen. Magnify.
    RIKER: It's a Federation ship. NCC 1305-E. It's the Yamato, our sister ship.
    WESLEY: The Yamato's nowhere near this quadrant.
    (WORF is growling.
    RIKER: Lieutenant, what's your problem?
    WORF: Family history. One of my ancestors served aboard a Klingon ship destroyed by the original Yamato in this war.
    RIKER: Their war, not yours!
    PICARD: Number One? (getting close to Riker) I suggest that we henceforth exclusively use the other NCC registry.)
    ;)

    Bob

    P.S.

    Worf's (never revealed) later reaction to the destruction of the Yamato in "Contagion"

    [​IMG]

    :devil:
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2014
  10. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    In Roddenberry's defense, his conceit in the TMP novel's prologue was that he assumed the role of a 23rd-century drama producer who had made Star Trek as a dramatization of the real adventures of Kirk and his crew -- taking some admitted dramatic license with many of the details. So he needed a justification for why it was the Enterprise rather than some other ship that got selected for such an adaptation.
     
  11. Mary Ann

    Mary Ann Knitting is logical Admiral

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    There will be crew members who don't wish to stay on the Enterprise for professional and/or personal reasons. Some may prefer commissions on smaller ships, some may wish to work exclusively on science vessels, and some may not wish to work under certain commanding officers. The Enterprise may think it attracts the best and brightest, but some of those best and brightest may not wish to serve on her.
     
  12. Cyke101

    Cyke101 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'd have to agree with the notion that TNG's the only one who used the term flagship as equating to the best of all of Starfleet. When Moore used the term in Redemption, it implied that Enterprise was called the flagship because it was the command ship of that particular fleet, which is truer in naval form. And then in DS9, the Romulans had a flagship (it was a rather big deal when she went down) in the final battle, but there was no indication whatsoever that it was the Romulans' best ship.

    Secondly, regardin the elitism approach of TNG, I've always thought it was odd that one ship would have:
    -the first and only android in Starfleet
    -the first and only Klingon officer in Starfleet
    -as far as I know, the only human with superhuman vision on board
    -the kid genius
    -an XO who, if had refused to join the Enterprise, would have given nuKirk a run for his money for youngest Starfleet captain
    -*

    If crew selection for new ships is something like a sports-styled draft, Picard hit the jackpot. And yes, I can believe that they'd have the choice to join the famed Capt. Picard, but that's still an extremely unique group of individuals any way you cut it. It's a group with many firsts and achievements even before they joined the ship.

    *in hindsight, though probably unintentional by Picard, he also brought on board a bartender with quasi-mystical cosmic abilities, though not Starfleet. Still, someone of that caliber and with those skills can not be part of your usual passenger manifest in an average Starfleet vessel. Combine her with the others outlined above, and you have one *very* formidable team.
     
  13. Forbin

    Forbin Admiral Admiral

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    ^On the other hand, those elite few are balanced out by the other 1000 useless cyphers on board.

    ;)
     
  14. Mytran

    Mytran Commodore Commodore

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    Sure you're not thinking of Voyager? The senior staff literally did EVERYTHING on that ship!
     
  15. Forbin

    Forbin Admiral Admiral

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    I said out, dammit!
    Well, all the series did that, mostly.
     
  16. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    Janeway sort of asked the people who were good at what they did to attend her morning briefings. She ran a meritocracy where people became favored officers by doing everything, which is sort of the opposite of what was going on aboard Picard's ship...

    On the E-D, the already selected bridge officers were sent to also perform every off-bridge job imaginable. LaForge went to see what was taking so long at Engineering in "The Last Outpost", and apparently took over the whole department there and then. When Riker called security in "Conspiracy", LaForge and Worf rather mysteriously responded; later, Worf actually became a Security Chief. And so forth - these people got (or took) additional responsibilities and embraced them, advancing their careers that way.

    Of course, the writers retroactively explained some of this: LaForge had "always" impressed Picard with his engineering skills and appparently had "always" been slated to take over the Chief Engineer post, blah blah. Which is actually fine and well, as the skipper of the Federation Flagship ought to be in a position to assemble a dream team. It's just funny that for the entire first season, everybody on the bridge is a wild card, a jack of all trades with no designated role or task. Would Picard really be allowed to have that long a "shakedown" for his top crew?

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  17. USS Triumphant

    USS Triumphant Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    If Starfleet follows the traditions of some navies (and admittedly there is NOTHING that I can recall that supports this, but still), then perhaps Captain Picard is a "captain of the upper half", "captain of the list", or a "flag captain", in which case, he *would* be a flag officer. And if he was the *senior* such officer present, then he would probably command the fleet (barring a specific assignment from Command that contradicted that, like if another officer had specific experience that applied to what they were facing so they chose them to command, instead).
     
  18. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Clean Old Mod Moderator

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    A conceit that Ron Moore was happy to do away with on BSG....Galactica and her crew weren't the hero ship because they were the best of the best...they were the hero ship because they were the only ones who survived.
     
  19. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It was a great irony, really. They only survived because they were an outmoded museum ship and their Commander was there because he was a washed-up dead-ender. A lot more interesting in many ways*.

    (* EDIT: And it explained why the ship was home to potentially-brilliant-but-dysfunctional personalities like Saul Tigh, Starbuck, Apollo in his own way, and the Chief. The kind of people who, though capable, would believably not rise to be the creme-de-la-creme of a functioning military but who could yet find hidden depths in themselves in extreme circumstances.)

    This was in a way kind of an inbuilt flaw of Trek: it had trouble interesting itself in the underdog -- even DS9 had to eventually wind up putting Sisko in command of armadas and such -- and the underdog really is a great source of stories.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2014
  20. Shat Happens

    Shat Happens Captain Captain

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    *BZZZZT* offtopic!! Nobody ever called TOS flagship if I'm not gravely mistaken.