Writing Women

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by QuarkforNagus, May 23, 2014.

  1. Gov Kodos

    Gov Kodos Admiral Admiral

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    What makes them annoying, bitchy and/or whiny?

    Both? Why does this male aspect make her not count as annoying, bitchy and/or whiny?
     
  2. QuarkforNagus

    QuarkforNagus Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Bellana is always crying about some thing or another. Nothing anyone does is ever good enough for her and the whole crew seems to go to great lengths to avoid having to deal with her. She's rude and self-centred.

    Kira is similar to Bellana. She's always trying to start a fight. It's understandable to some degree given her experience with the Occupation, but it's still fucking annoying.

    Luwaxanna is obsessed with finding a man for herself and her boring kid. It's kind of disappointing to see a female character whose whole existence on the show seems to be about attracting a man.

    Vash - basically Dennis the Menace.

    Ro - see Kira

    Janeway - Janeway spends all this time shutting down people who question her opinion only to realize at the end that she was in the wrong. There are too many of these kinds of episodes and the common thread in them is Janeway. You don't see this kind of shit happening on a consistent basis with any other captain.

    I'm not a fan of Dax. I don't think she's any of these things. I actually think she's kind of boring. But I don't attribute that to her gender as she doesn't have one specific gender.
     
  3. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    No, actually. Both Jadzia Dax and Ezri Dax are 100% female. They just contain a slug in their bellies which share with them the lifetimes and memories several men, as well as several other women.
     
  4. Gov Kodos

    Gov Kodos Admiral Admiral

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    Good thing folks like Harry weren't always whining about one thing or another.

    Worf, what a peacenik milksop he was.

    Sure, Tom and Kirk and Riker weren't checking out every woman with a pulse.

    No history of trouble making and immaturity from Tom Paris. A for fast talking con artists, good thing Tom, and Quark never pulled any cons on folks.

    Women with opinions, good thing folks like McCoy were around to keep down the bitchiness.

    Kirk never found out his hard ass methods could be wrong like 'Devil in the Dark' 'Obsession' 'Trouble with Tribbles'...

    So, since she's not just a woman like the others, she is exempt from female problems?
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2014
  5. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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    If Vash is Dennis, is Picard Margaret? Or are we talking about the British Dennis?
     
  6. Nightdiamond

    Nightdiamond Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    And the exaggerated qualities. For example Dax was the smart science officer, who knew how to kick ass because she hanged around Klingons, and at the same time she's sexy and good looking.

    The perfect every-woman designed for Fanboys.

    Pretty much the same thing with Seven- she's really intelligent, very precise, knows all the martial arts and, very attractive, and wears a skin tight jumpsuit that shows off every single curve.

    I love seeing the eye candy, the catsuits and fighting, but it becomes a cliche after awhile.

    They fair better than TOS's version-- All the women wear skimpy skirts, are allowed no where near the big chair, and are glorified secretaries who have to retire or marry by the time they reach lieutenant (glass ceiling).

    There's one episode where Kirk is snatched off the bridge and vanishes, and Uhura, who's supposed to be the trained professional, screams. A real scared girlie girl scream.

    I guess that would be the normal response, but you have to see this scene to know what I mean.

    Sometimes TOS can be hilarious :lol:
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2014
  7. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    To be fair, she had entered Betazoid mid-life where we're told her sexual drive is that of a teenager. And for her faults, she has some strong character traits. The episode "Half a Life" is probably the best use of her where we get a good glimpse of her convictions and her in a relationship.
     
  8. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I got into Trek watching TOS repeats on BBC2 when I was a bairn, so I have a soft spot for it in my memories--which is the reason I avoid watching it now so it doesn't destroy itself in my mind.

    It does however, need to be taken with a large handful of salt, given the time it was made, when female characters were always behind men, there as basically eye-candy or damsels in distress, and when the miniskirt was a sign of women's liberation. All things that should've been corrected in NuTrek but unfortunately aren't.
     
  9. QuarkforNagus

    QuarkforNagus Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    OMG. Harry was SOOOO annoying. He was always afraid he was going to screw things up. How does he think he got assigned to a startship if he's so incompetent?

    Umm... Worf didn't argue with his CO anywhere near as much as Kira or Ro. And the whole point of the character was that he didn't always want to fight, like was expected of him.


    BORING characters... Teenaged boys in Starfleet uniforms.


    To compare the two is asinine. Quark cons for profit.


    Kirk was a terrible captain.

    No. There are a lot of boring characters. Like Crusher, or Deanna Troi. And many annoying ones -- like Barclay, or Kira. I'm not sure what you're trying to get me to admit, here.

    Relative to male characters, a larger proportion of female characters are infuriating to watch. So far, you seem to be the only one that hasn't offered an opinion, opting only to go back and forth with me, by proving that there are also annoying male characters.

    Well, duh...
     
  10. Captain Kathryn

    Captain Kathryn Commodore Commodore

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    People can rag all they want on Voyager, but I think it had the strongest female ensemble of any Trek show. They weren't the types of women to "fall in love in a day" and crap like that, as they had characters do ever so often on other shows like TOS, TNG and occasionally DS9.

    I wouldn't say "annoying or bitchy" but I think they made many female characters very flat and one-sided a lot of times. However, I adore Kira, Dax, Torres, Janeway, Seven, T'Pol. Even the TNG ladies who were a bit one-sided are okay with me. But I always hated whenever the writers portrayed them as becoming completely IN LOVE in like a day. Get out of here. Not saying it doesn't happen in real life to people (it's happened to me) but it happening every few episodes is unrealistic...

    On a side note, I think the reason Guinan didn't suck is BECAUSE of Whoopi Goldberg! :)
     
  11. Nightdiamond

    Nightdiamond Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Sometimes it's irresistible to take shots at the way TOS shows women because it should know better. A lot of the times the portrayals are just plain funny.

    I have a theory that NUTrek is intentionally making fun of the miniskirt idea and exploiting it at the same time. It does look hot the way it is designed, especially as a dress uniform.

    I think they're saying 'what's wrong with a sexy uniform design?'.


    Here's another gem from TOS;

    Technically what he says is right, but at the same time it sounds so not-right. :lol:
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2014
  12. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Definition of bitchy: When a woman does something that men get congratulated for doing.

    Though I suppose you could say the reverse about men getting called wussy or implied to be homosexual.

    Most of the time female characters are written in terms of their relationship with male characters, and written around getting the male part of the audience aroused. You always see undesirable men land attractive women because, of course, he's a good person and thus deserves it just by being so darn nice. But you never seen undesirable women land attractive men. And whenever a female character is portrayed as anything but happy and warm especially toward the protagonist they've been manipulated to root for, the audience turns against her immediately.
     
  13. Misfit Toy

    Misfit Toy Caped Trek Mod Admiral

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    Dial back the antagonism or your stay at TrekBBS will be a short one.
     
  14. QuarkforNagus

    QuarkforNagus Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Lighten up.

    Wasn't trying to antagonize anyone with my observation.
     
  15. Misfit Toy

    Misfit Toy Caped Trek Mod Admiral

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    Your "observation" was nothing but snark. Any further comment regarding this can be taken to PM.
     
  16. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    There probably are a few things they wanted to do differently with the occasional female character, but would probably never be allowed to get away with due to studio interference and demands. I always keep in mind that in the first draft of TOS the XO was a woman, a pretty major statement for the time--even more so the fact they made the pilot with her still in place.

    Not a thing wrong with that, so long as men are seen wearing the sleeveless and 'skant' uniforms too--who wouldn't want to see NuKirk flashing his legs from the big chair? :)
     
  17. Lance

    Lance Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I like that the OP assumes that 'Whoopi Goldberg' was a character in Star Trek: The Next Generation. ;)

    (A surprisingly common stance, actually. I had friends at school who would see my TNG action figures and could identify them all by character name... except Guinan, who was always just called 'Whoopi'.)
     
  18. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    Well, in a sense, 'Whoopi Goldberg' is a character, though she was created by Caryn Johnson and not Star Trek.
     
  19. Whoa Nellie

    Whoa Nellie Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Oh, No. We simply can not have an intelligent, independent (This isn't a starship, Jean-Luc. I don't follow orders.) woman that dares to shake things up a bit. That just won't do. :rolleyes:

    I love the fact that Ira Steven Behr gave us with Vash a wonderfully written character that personifies the old saying, "Well behaved women don't make the history books." Vash is a fun character! :devil:

    Warmest Wishes,
    Whoa Nellie
     
  20. Jedi_Master

    Jedi_Master Admiral Admiral

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    I don't understand the point of this thread. Weren't there lots of times when MALE characters were whiny, irritating, impatient, overbearing, ridiculously emotional, etc?

    Why is it when FEMALE characters do all of those things, they are suddenly "bitchy"?