Would you mind UHURA being promoted to BIG THREE status in next movie?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by Mutara Nebula 1967, Apr 24, 2010.

  1. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Would you mind UHURA being promoted to BIG THREE status in next mo

    I apologise in advance, but this is my pet hate! It's not PC to call for more women; it's common sense. TOS was pushing the envelope when it featured female officers (never mind a black female officer) but it dropped the ball by featuring too many yeomen (i.e. nco's whose job it was to serve coffee) rather than women in positions of authority.

    The problem that Trek has had all along is not just the absence of women in prominent roles but it is the absence of women period. Women form just over half of the human race and yet we see that only about a third of starfleet crew are women and pretty much every Federation species seems to follow this imbalance. The fact that the Federation is always banging on about equality demonstrates that the imbalance isn't a conscious decision by Starfleet but a problem with the writers and casting people.

    NuTrek dropped the ball itself by doing little with the recurring women from TOS in spite of there being several simple ways to feature characters like T'Pau, Janice Rand, or Number One, and even though Christine Chapel was a biologist with experience in exo-archaeology and paleobiology from her time with Korby, we see that she is still a nurse in NuTrek who will be little more than McCoy's sidekick even if they decide to give her some lines in the next film.

    They are a bit limted because so many of the TOS characters were men. However, apart from Gaila (whose main job was to flash her body in a comic scene) and the two mothers (who pretty much need to be women) the principle new characters (captain & first officers of the Kelvin, Olsen, Keenser, admiral with lines, vulcan scientist with lines) are all men. Even the increase in Uhura's role is almost entirely due to her role as a love interest.

    Overall Trek's recent record on equality has been poor compared to many other sci fi franchises. It does ok with a few high profile female characters (usually 2-3 in the main cast and maybe 1-2 recurring guests) but if you do a direct comparison the real ratio is more than 2:1. Not a good effort.
     
  2. Cicero

    Cicero Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Would you mind UHURA being promoted to BIG THREE status in next mo

    ^ The cast of "The Cage" was somewhat better balanced than the eventual TOS cast was. Two of six main cast members were female (Pike, Number One, Spock, Colt, Tyler, Boyce), and one of those was the first officer and helmsman. The role of the yeoman was also much more active than that eventually assumed by Rand and a rotating cast.

    The initial broadcast version of the original series was also slightly better - two of six credited stars and co-stars were still female (Kirk, Spock, McCoy, Scott, Uhura, Rand), but the roles of the female cast members were greatly reduced, and their personalities were a good deal more emotional and less businesslike.

    The show became much more unbalanced later, with the elevation of Sulu, departure of Rand, and introduction of Chekov. This is, unfortunately, the cast balance inherited by the new films - only one of seven credited stars is female.

    I would like to see this imbalance addressed somehow (Colt or a female chief of security might fit in nicely; Rand and the later yeoman would be much too young ten years earlier), but I hope Uhura's screen time declines. She was the only major character I disliked in the movie (except Nero).

    I found the degree to which she was emotive and emotionally-driven off-putting. Compare her with a male character in the film - Sulu, Chekov, Pike - and the difference is striking. Even the contrast with the female characters of 1964 ("The Cage") is notable. Observe both Number One and Colt in "The Menagerie". They seem similar in demeanor to the male officers - intelligent before emotional, much more like real-life female officers. (Note that Colt is intellectually-driven despite her apparent "very strong female drives".)

    I'd hope to see someone more along these lines, or like one of the female leads from the post-TNG series, given a major role (Number One, somehow?), especially as an alternative to a greater focus on Uhura.
     
  3. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Would you mind UHURA being promoted to BIG THREE status in next mo

    Rand is actually the same age as Kirk so not too young. Astrobiologist Ann Mulhall is my favourite pick outside the main cast as she was an engineer but can also fill a niche that isn't occupied by any of the main cast.
     
  4. DaveyNY

    DaveyNY Commodore Commodore

    Re: Would you mind UHURA being promoted to BIG THREE status in next mo

    The Very Obvious problem with this, is that GUYS, are writing the screenplays.

    Interpret that any way you like.
     
  5. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Would you mind UHURA being promoted to BIG THREE status in next mo

    It's true. But why do guys assume that other guys don't want to see more women? Why do they assume that women don't want to see more women? I think the problem is that they new writers seem to view Trek as being some kind of war franchise where you don't use women unless you have a specific reason, which usually equates to mother, love interest, or nurse. There are some chicks in the background, the writers just need to give them more lines and clearer roles and more particularly start showing women in engineering and security.
     
  6. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Would you mind UHURA being promoted to BIG THREE status in next mo

    Nobody forced them to use the TOS crew. They could have invented a new crew with more women, homosexuals, Muslims, Aborigenes and everyone else who feels underrepresented in modern media.
     
  7. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Would you mind UHURA being promoted to BIG THREE status in next mo

    They made a choice not to use the established TOS characters that would have fitted into the story, namely: Number One, Rand, T'Pau, and Chapel (who only gets a name check).

    My issue isn't so much with the main cast they DID use (although I'd have been happy if they'd saved Chekov until later) it's more with the supportng cast that they left out and the new characters that they introduced. I would do Robeau given half a chance but he wasn't exactly an equal opportunities employer. Very uninspired casting overall.

    I mean, I loved the Worm that Turned in the Two Ronnies but they weren't claiming to espouse equality. I just want to Trek to live it rather than just talk about it. :rolleyes:
     
  8. FarStrider

    FarStrider Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: Would you mind UHURA being promoted to BIG THREE status in next mo


    And exactly who would have wanted to watch that movie? People wanted a movie about Kirk and Spock and the TOS crew. .. the writers can put Muslims and homosexuals and aborigines in the next movie, since they've established a base with which to work. . .

    ~FS
     
  9. Jeyl

    Jeyl Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Would you mind UHURA being promoted to BIG THREE status in next mo

    Anyone who wanted to and even more if it ended up being a good movie.

    I'm going to be honest here. Bringing back the original crew is one thing, but bringing back the mindset of the 60s is another. Last thing I want in a Star Trek film is more women in useless roles where all they do is become the love interest to the male characters. Seriously, they have that classic set up where the men are going to do their "saving the galaxy" stuff that features Uhura simply saying goodbye. I honestly believe the writers for this movie are under some kind of delusional state where they think they're doing female characters a good service, but aren't.

    Remember when they introduced Arcee, the only female autobot (heck, the only female Transformer in the movies) into Revenge of the Fallen? Ya, that was certainly a giant leap for female roles. She and her other components were the only Autobots that got killed and stayed that way. They're delusional.
     
  10. Jeyl

    Jeyl Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Would you mind UHURA being promoted to BIG THREE status in next mo

    Here's a little tidbit showcasing just how serious the film makers take Uhura's character.

    Pike: Can you speak Romulan?
    Uhura: All three dialects.

    Conclusion? She can speak Romulan which may in fact be a useful trait to have when our foes are in fact Romulans. But....

    Nero: Hello.

    The Romulans all speak perfect english rendering Uhura's skill to speak Romulan entirely pointless. But it gets better.

    Commentary: JJ, having the Romulans speak english and not Romulan I think is brilliant.

    Indeed it is. Anyone else think that they're so full of themselves that they'll just think of one very mediocre idea and assume it's the most brilliant creative thing ever?

    Moral of the story: Stop wasting our time with characters that don't do anything. Sure, she can do all sorts of crazy stuff, but what good is all that when you won't let her use any of it? She speaks Romulan? We'll have the Romulans speak english! That's brilliant! She's a communication's officer? We'll have Chekov hail the Narada instead! A planet has minutes left to evacuate and every second counts? We'll have her get up and question Spock who is obviously in a hurry because she's in ruv. I do hate movies where the characters think their love is more important than the billions of lives on an entire planet full of families that probably have a much more interesting relationship than Spock and Uhura's relationship.
     
  11. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Would you mind UHURA being promoted to BIG THREE status in next mo

    Vina and Number One were an awesome place to start but Trek lost the courage of its convictions after that sadly.
     
  12. startrekrcks

    startrekrcks Fleet Captain

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    Re: Would you mind UHURA being promoted to BIG THREE status in next mo

    She was more interested in Spock than doing her job that's a issue
     
  13. Jeyl

    Jeyl Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Would you mind UHURA being promoted to BIG THREE status in next mo

    What? Did you mean "That's an issue?" or "That's an issue."
     
  14. startrekrcks

    startrekrcks Fleet Captain

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    Re: Would you mind UHURA being promoted to BIG THREE status in next mo

    that's an issue why didn't she not do her job properly Prime Uhura was much better
     
  15. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Would you mind UHURA being promoted to BIG THREE status in next mo

    What the fuck, somebody says that on the commentary? Who? :guffaw:
     
  16. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Would you mind UHURA being promoted to BIG THREE status in next mo

    Yep - they chose to use the TOS crew, and they can do anything with them that the market will bear.

    The more of Zoe Saldana in the next movie, the better. :techman:
     
  17. startrekrcks

    startrekrcks Fleet Captain

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    Re: Would you mind UHURA being promoted to BIG THREE status in next mo

    Should they focus more on Kirk,Spock and Bones that's what happened in TOS why was Uhura in the trio in NuTrek? Boborci please flesh out the Kirk,Spock and Bones out more is that making sense.
     
  18. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Would you mind UHURA being promoted to BIG THREE status in next mo

    It's evidence why their are often regulations about senior staff having relationships with juniors in the same posting. However, if Uhura is as smart as her TOS counterpart she would have a better understanding of Spock than anybody else on the ship. He's in charge and could be affected by his emotions; in some ways she is the best qualified to check him out and this is actually what she is doing here. I think it's why she stands idly by when Kirk provokes him later, because deep down she knows he isn't thinking his options through logically. I have less of an issue with her behaviour here than I do with the way she was portrayed in the Transporter Room.

    Whatever they do with the relationship in the next movie I really hope they leave it in the bedroom. The more it interferes with their decision-making while on duty the more we have to wonder why one of them isn't transferred!
     
  19. FarStrider

    FarStrider Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: Would you mind UHURA being promoted to BIG THREE status in next mo

    It is obvious to me, that someone high up knew about their relationship, which is why Spock didn't want the "appearance" of favoritism. . .but she is obviously a graduate student (given her rank and the fact that she was once the TA in his department. . . even in today's society, professors and grad students are allowed to get together) so, it's not necessarily against the rules. . . for instance, George and Winona Kirk serve on the same ship, and he's the First Officer. . . you look at Star Fleet in the same way you look at today's military. . . they are not going to send a bunch of young people out in deep space for years at a time and expect them NOT to hook up with someone. . . btw, Spock pulled Nyota onto the transporter pad for the kiss. . .as he stated, his odds of coming back were less than 5% and his father has just given him permission to be as emotional as he needs to be. . . I think a little leeway is allowed in circumstances like that. . .


    ~FS
     
  20. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Would you mind UHURA being promoted to BIG THREE status in next mo

    Yeah, his emotional state can be used as an excuse for much of the aberrant behaviour we see but if we let them go down that road we might end up with Spock acting like a jerk all the time - I fear that future...