Discussion in 'Star Trek: Enterprise' started by Reeborg, May 15, 2014.
He's a guy after all. And, he's got Kirk.
Now that's a clone baby I want to see!
Actually the universe would probably explode from the hotness
Something like this? http://www.fanpop.com/fans/ebyabe/gallery/image/3580454/chris-pine-zachary-quinto-morph
For them it's a symbol of what could be, and a child which will never get to grow up. I would be upset too.
Stalin once said that a single person dying is a tragedy, millions dying is a statistic. This is a similar point; The smaller number is simple for us humans to wrap our heads around and tie our emotions to.
Though if I was presented with a warehouse of mees, I would raise them into an army and take over a small island nation, or something...
FWIW, I fell in love with the picture of my son at 3 months and knew he was mine the moment the adoption agency social worker showed it to me. I then moved heaven and earth to get him.
I agree with this in the fact it was about their feelings for each other more so than the baby.
But being a mom, the second I saw my child, I was in love. A total bond. Though T'Pol didn't carry this child, knowing that she did indeed make her, I could see them easily falling that quickly in love with her.
Babies are easy to love, and this a child of a couple in love. So it's not just her/his child, but their child with the person they love. I don't find it all that hard to believe they came to love the child quickly.
If it makes a difference: my stepson had a daughter 6 years ago. The very first moment I saw her, I fell head over heels in love with her. She is not related to me by blood at all.
So, yeah, I buy it.
Cloning just means that the child has one biological parent instead of two. It's still your offspring, so I don't see why a cloned child would produce a meaningfully different emotional reaction in his/her mother or father than a child produced through sexual reproduction.
I mean, realistically, humanoid cloning could never be that simple. It would always be just as difficult to clone and bring to term a single clone as it would be any other child. Mass cloning a la Star Wars: Episode II is so implausible as to be fantasy.
But I also wouldn't expect human psychology to be capable of emotionally processing such a thing the way it can a single child, even a single child produced under extraordinary circumstances. Human beings have never evolved to reproduce in such vast numbers, so it makes sense that the human heart wouldn't know how to cope with such a prospect.
Exactly. Even if they never got the chance to bond with Elizabeth to the extent at they would have wanted to, the situation itself is still unbelievably sad.
Not a parent, and no blood nephews or nieces, so it's impossible to say. The other problem with the question is the condition "as quickly", since there's nothing to compare it against if it's a cloned baby. I don't know how I'd react. There are certainly plenty of small children in this apartment complex I have to listen to making noise every day that I'm not related to, and I certainly don't love any of them because it's sometimes a nuisance. But if one were in danger and I was able to protect it? I hope I'd be able to, but again, I simply don't know. I've never been emotionally close to a child.
Troi actually was pregnant and could feel the baby move and connect with it before giving birth. It was easier for her to make a connection with her baby, I think, than it would have been for T&T and their cloned child. Her pregnancy didn't last as long as mine did, but I think she could have loved that baby from the moment it moved.
Trip had already been pregnant of course and he was a heartless bastard about it. Didn't love it, didn't care, embarrassed by the blessing of new life.
But I guess the war, losing his sister, Fla being sliced in half.. it softened him and made him more appreciative.
That's not completely true. Trip expressed concern for the child he was involuntarily carrying, IIRC he asked Phlox if the child could be removed without harming it, he certainly didn't want it killed. In Trek anti-abortion discussions, this episode is one of the ones commonly used as a example.
It was the hormones. But once it was removed and he was no longer in a hormonal hostage situation did he care? NO.
^ Where in the episode are you getting that from?
Was it ever mentioned again? Did he get sentimental on Father's day? NO.
Worse, he never got a thank you for being temporary father. Makes one wonder what the aliens did with the fetus.
They got what they wanted and they fled!!
Little do they know the human DNA fragments now lurking in one of their own will be the downfall of their species.
Setting aside the abortion issue: You can care without being super-attached, or viewing yourself as the child's parent.
I mean, if I babysit for an acquaintance's children, I can care about them and what them to be happy and safe yet not fixate on them. It's not like the only options are, "Instant Parental Attachment" and "Utter Apathy." There's an entire continuum of feelings of care and protectiveness somebody might have for someone else's children.
Going back to the pregnancy issue:
I think it's clear that Trip did not view himself as the alien fetus's parent in any sense, but I also don't think we should look at "Unexpected" for reasonable clues about 22nd Century Earth's attitudes towards abortion. You're talking about a first contact situation gone awry; Trip's concerns for the fetus can extend to his understanding that the Xyrillians are aliens, and that Human standards about terminating a pregnancy may be utterly inapplicable to an alien lifeform. For all he knows, a Xyrllian infant may have a developed brain and mind at a very early stage in gestation, rending the termination of gestation a very different moral consideration than it is early in a Human pregnancy.
If he's sensible, he's also thinking about the potential diplomatic repercussions of harming an unborn Xyrillian without their knowledge and consent.
And, finally, there's also just the general value system of Starfleet explorers coming into play. These are people who spend their careers seeking out new life and new civilizations. They want to learn about alien life and avoid harming it whenever possible -- no matter questions of abortion.
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