Would this make Nemsis' ending more satisfying.

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by ConRefit79, May 10, 2013.

  1. ConRefit79

    ConRefit79 Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2008
    If we changed nothing else other than Picard coming to his senses, sending Data back and sacrificing himself. That would have been a different twist on the reset button. They set us up with another reset button option and at the last minute don't use it. I think it would have added more meaning to the ending of that film. Then we have the crew has lost its leader/father figure. Seeing Data dealing with that emotion. Riker gains command of the Enterprise but at a very high price. And Crusher has the what might have been.
     
  2. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2007
    Location:
    in a figment of a mediocre mind's imagination

    I think this improves it slightly because you don't have the "built-in reset button" with Picard that you did with B4, and therefore the impact is more genuine, but I don't think it really improves the film that much.
     
  3. ConRefit79

    ConRefit79 Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2008
    True, it needs much more work to make it very good. But at least the ending would have been a surprise.
     
  4. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2007
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    Not even that's true. We all knew the entire script for Nemesis online before the movie even came out.
     
  5. TheSubCommander

    TheSubCommander Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    May 5, 2013
    Indeed!:rommie:

    I resemble that remark.
     
  6. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2012
    Location:
    Shangri-La
    Honestly... tweaking the ending isn't going to fix all the problems this movie has. All Picard dying would confirm is that this movie -did- in fact kill the TNG franchise. Though I'm sure the novelists would find a way to resurrect him somehow. :p
     
  7. Lance

    Lance Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Location:
    The Enterprise's Restroom
    I've given it a great deal of thought (not having a life can do that to a person ;)), and IMO what Nemesis really needed to work with that story is for Shinzon to not be Picard's friggin' CLONE.

    Look at it this way: North Korea. Imagine Shinzon as Kim Jong Un. He's the cocky young heir apparent to a long time nemesis of the Federation. There's been a spill in the Romulan senate and this new guy has become praetor. The Feds know nothing about him, and are cautious about what his true motives are, especially after he makes an offer of peace. All of this is exactly as seen in the movie, but where the plot splits with the established script is that in this version Shinzon isn't a Picard clone, but rather a genuine Reman... or possibly even a Romulan. The movie takes a more political flair, and Picard no longer has a 'personal' stake in the plot. Rather, he has to act as a professional diplomat, immediately aligning him to the Picard character as seen on TV. The plot could go in any number of better directions from this setup than it did in the actual movie. Shinzon being Picard's clone is a major headache in the existing script and makes a mockery of Shinzon as a villain (and Picard in the process too).

    Instead of being a souless action shoot 'em up, instead Nemesis could have been an intriguing political drama... all without changing too much about the fundamental story setup. And with Shinzon being radically unhinged, they could still have worked some action scenes in to keep the popcorn munchers happy. Win/Win. :)
     
  8. ConRefit79

    ConRefit79 Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2008
    ^
    Agreed the clone thing was just dumb. Could still be a part human. Maybe Sela's son. But I was thinking trying to make a small tweak so the ending would not have been so predictable. We saw it coming a mile away. And I went into the movie not knowing that part. I knew there would be a lone of Picard as the villian. And it involves Romulans and Remans, but that is it.
     
  9. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2001
    Location:
    Burlington, VT, USA
    My opinion is that no, that would not have made the ending more satisfying.
     
  10. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2007
    Location:
    in a figment of a mediocre mind's imagination

    speak for yourself. I avoid spoilers. I know nothing about STID except what I know from the trailers.
     
  11. Xavier_Storma

    Xavier_Storma Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2009
    Location:
    Duesseldorf, Germany
    The problem is that the story and the impact of the film would not have worked that way. It was not about Romulans, Remans etc. It was about personality. What makes us human, what makes us unique, where your place in this world is.
    The political setup was just the stage for the central play.

    I liked it, though I wish they would restore those 50 minutes of footage and make a proper extended cut. It would be the swan song the TNG crew deserves.
     
  12. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2007
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    And for every one person like yourself, there are 100 others who will spoil themselves just fine. And anyway, comparing being spoiled for STID and being spoiled for Nemesis is like comparing apples to oranges as far as how much information was out there before each movie was shown.
     
  13. Mele Kalikimaka

    Mele Kalikimaka Be Here. Aloha. Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2001
    Location:
    cardinal biggles
    Ten years on, I still think the best way to improve Nemesis is to destroy every copy, and make sure Stuart Baird never directs another film, and John Logan never writes another screenplay. Sadly, only one of those three has come to pass.
     
  14. 22 Stars

    22 Stars Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2001
    PS should have played Shinzon in the second half of the film and Data should not have had a duplicate as well. That would have made the film better.
     
  15. ConRefit79

    ConRefit79 Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2008
    I had considered not including B4. But rather have Data suffer brain damage which causes him to be like B4. But I guess losing a major character(Picard) and having another severely injured would have made the ending even more depressing.
     
  16. xvicente

    xvicente Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2013
    The movie would end with two Datas? ugh.
     
  17. Xavier_Storma

    Xavier_Storma Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2009
    Location:
    Duesseldorf, Germany
    There are people who like this movie... I do not troll around to destroy every copy of the IMHO collossal disappointment that was TREK XI, and I am perfectly happy with people enjoying this film...
    So why troll around here? You don't like it? Ignore it.
     
  18. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2007
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    How is he trolling? The OP asked if his idea of a different ending would have made Nemesis better. The general consensus was that nothing would make Nemesis better, and his suggestion was that Nemesis should be forgotten, however facetiously he put it. He has a right to his opinion about Nemesis just as you have a right to your opinion about Star Trek XI. The only difference is that this thread is specifically about Nemesis, not XI.
     
  19. ConRefit79

    ConRefit79 Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2008
    My biggest problem with Nemesis is it felt like they were trying to copy ST:WOK. And it failed big time. Production values were good. Some scenes could have been cut, while others should not have been cut. And they made it so obvious that Data was going to pull a Spock. The battle dragged on too long. At least they didn't have 2 like ST:WOK.
     
  20. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2009
    Location:
    The glorious Shetland Isles!
    One thing I find hard to believe with Nemesis is that it took Troi and Riker 4-5 years to get married after getting back together in Insurrection. I kinda wish the film had had them married and already onboard the Titan, I'm sure the audience could wrap their heads around the passage of time and off-screen character development.

    As for who dies at the end, I was alright with Data sacrificing himself for Picard. But he should have stayed dead, the whole B-4 thing was such a cop out and should have been removed.

    There are lots of other little bits that should have been changed or explained, but the biggy has to be Data 2.0.