Would Nemesis have been received better if.....

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by los2188, Aug 6, 2012.

  1. CoveTom

    CoveTom Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Jul 17, 2003
    I agree with that. To me, Star Trek has always worked best as a TV series. The feature film format places too many restrictions on it. A 26-episode season, which was the norm for most of Trek, in which the writers can feel free to take chances, to tell a variety of types of stories, to feature all of the actors and characters at different times, and so forth, results in an end product that is far more satisfying, IMHO.

    Frankly, I think that the feature film industry has become so devoted to nothing but major blockbusters that have to follow a cookie cutter format, that television and the Internet are the only outlets where we can get real quality out of not just science fiction but entertainment in general.
  2. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

    Jul 2, 2009
    Nemesis, without any changes made, would have been a big thing between First Contact and Insurrection. The visuals would have been amazing for science fiction and fantasy between 1995 and 1998. So that would have been a good draw.

    Problem is that is didn't hold a candle to the visuals of Star Wars, Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, etc...
  3. indolover

    indolover Fleet Captain

    Jan 23, 2010
    Nemesis was a poor concept IMO.

    The "double" Picard could have been a changeling, who post-Dominion War broke from the Great Link and wanted revenge against the Federation. Or the "evil" Picard from the mirror universe (as contrast to the good Picard from "our" universe).
  4. Captaindemotion

    Captaindemotion Vice Admiral Admiral

    May 26, 2001
    ^Yeah, a mirror universe movie could have worked. Actually, I'm surprised that they haven't thought of that before. Everyone knows the basic idea (think 'Evil Cartman' with a goatee in South Park).

    They would have by no means have been tied to the DS9 take on things - this could have been a different MU, more like the one seen in the original series episode, Mirror Mirror.
  5. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Sep 28, 2009
    The glorious Shetland Isles!
    They also had that in GEN as well, with the Duras sisters coming back. If they wanted a villian who had connection to Picard, they should have had Patrick Steward in the role. I don't mind Tom Hardy, but he's trying to play a darker facet of an already well established character, he never really had much of a chance from the beginning.

    The crew should have been split right from the start, with Riker and Troi already married and onboard the Titan, which would plan an important role throughout (perhaps something involving Ambassador Worf?). I mean would it really have taken Riker and Troi five years to finally get hitched after getting back together at the end of INS?

    Why would he want to attack Earth? A planet he has as much connection to as Bajor? Yes his donor was from there, but it was Romulus that created him, abandoned him, then abused him. Surely he should have take his vengence out on them rather than travelling all the way to Earth. More should have been done with his back story, show him going through hell at the hands of the Romulans so that you could sympathise with what he went through.

    That was a pointless scene, with pointless aliens, who had no connection to anything at all. Had both side been looking for the Soong-Type android, and they faced off against a platoon or twelve of Reman shock troops, it might have had a greater sense of involvement in the plot and greater danger for our heroes.

    Those speeches about how they're different because of the lives they've led, and how each would be like his double if he'd lived that life...well duh! Individuals aren't just nature, nurture has a huge impact on their lives and development. It's basic sociology and they made such a big thing about it, when it really never needed to be.

    I understand that bums on seats are needed to pay for the film and all the work that went into it, but like you say, its the final chapter of an already well-established saga. Trek in general and TNG in particular has a huge fan base (the hard core ones as well as the occassional viewers), so numbers are already there--it may not be the biggest grossing film if they'd made it one last 'hurah' for the series and the fans, but at least it would have left them satisfied and content. What's wrong with slipping in a few jokes or lines that only fans will get? Not a damn thing :)
  6. Temis the Vorta

    Temis the Vorta Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Oct 30, 1999

    However, I think the TNG characters were out of steam by that point, and none of the other shows had gained pop culture traction. What JJ Abrams did was really the only way you could go with the movies - reboot as gently as possible.

    And I agree with CoveTom - Star Trek is designed for TV. Movies will always be too short, simplistic and action focused, because thats how movies must be in order to make money
  7. SimpleLogic

    SimpleLogic Guest

    While yes Star Trek does work better on TV they still can do good movie outings and have it be entertaining. Star Trek IV is one of my favorites, and it doesn't have a real (maniacal laugh type) villain. They also give the entire crew something interesting to do throughout the movie. If Star Trek would just stop remaking the same movie (TWOK) over and over they might could find their way.
  8. CaptainStoner

    CaptainStoner Knuckle-dragging TNZ Denizen Admiral

    Sep 11, 2007
    Hill dweller
    I tend to think timing is a bigger factor than subjective notions of quality. The two biggest grossing trek films have been Tmp and the reboot. Neither of those films strike me as particularly better than nemesis, especially '09. They all have ridiculously dumb plot elements and missed opporunities. But what none of the more succesful trek films had was a tired out franchise. Or a 3 hour LOTR blockbuster to go up against.
  9. TenLubak

    TenLubak Commander Red Shirt

    May 10, 2003
    Baltimore MD USA
    I think if the wore the Deep Space Nine uniforms I would have liked Nemesis better. And I would have liked it better if they didn't do alot of stuff that didn't make that much sense. Theres too much to list.
    But it could've helped it alot if it came out when INS did i think because it would follow in the same dark vein as FC when the series was still hot and ppl would like it more. Its very important to me that the general public likes Nemesis and makes a lot of money so they wont call me dork and i then have to tuck my star trek picard in generations tng movie uniform (w new com badge design!) keychain into my backpack as an insecure child. Man i wish this film did better. It would have really raised my self esteem being on a winning team and like liking something cool. would have made me feel like a belonged to group of something bigger. And it would have made paramount pictures alot of money so they could remove all the grafetti from their theme parks like from the railing of the station house of the Grizzely roller coaster at Paramount's Kings Dominion! I hate how they didnt put any money into the upkeep of thier theme parks!

    - Just put the data death back in INS instead of this one since it prolly made more sense there anyway. Because he basically comitted suicide in Nememis. Data obviously just gave up on life sinec he was basically Enstien like smart, working as a ferry ship captain. He was so just depressed and ended it all. thats what i gathered from his death. I think the crew knew it too which it why the ending was so damned morbid and no one spoke much. They realized they had made his life hell and he couldnt take it anymore. Maybe if they werent such pompas jerks all the time I wouldnt have blown himself up. or maybe if they gave him a duty that was challenging instead of plopping him down at the Conn. eh who knows.

    Nemesis was cool and pretty much what I wanted as a casual fan who 18 and smoked weed all day and droped out of college. then i saw it and realized i didnt like it. So then i gave it back. (Literally sold a used movie i got for 4 dollars back to Electronics Boutique in white marsh mall for 50 cents store credit. I was able to buy Ernest Rides Again on VHS with my trade in !)
    Later when i grew up i watched it again to see if maybe since my head had cleared that I'd missed something. No actually where some scenes were nice Picard talking to shinzon, and ...well i liked that scene. It was pretty and it almost like the movie was going to have some depth and meaning. The acting was good, and if this picard shinzon relation ship would have been explored more it would have been better.