Would it really matter if the next Trek series were on linear TV?

Discussion in 'Future of Trek' started by jefferiestubes8, Oct 19, 2010.

  1. jefferiestubes8

    jefferiestubes8 Commodore Premium Member

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    aha, most likely though if there were a good business model created it would be a subscription-season-pass model.
    But for a on-demand streaming CBS Television would really have to put out better scripted 13 episodes rather than 22 if there were no linear TV series.
     
  2. jefferiestubes8

    jefferiestubes8 Commodore Premium Member

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    An interesting article on video syndication via the Internet:

    Welcome to the "Syndicated Video Economy"
     
  3. jefferiestubes8

    jefferiestubes8 Commodore Premium Member

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    Microsoft XBox in 2012 with a la carte programming

    http://techcrunch.com/2010/11/29/microsoft-tv-a-bold-move-that-may-blow-up-broadcast/

    Nov 29, 2010
    Reuters report
    http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6AS2E120101129

    Looks like Hulu, Google TV, Netflix, and Microsoft are all trying to be the next top streaming provider. 2012 looks like the big shakeout year for HD video streaming and ala carte programming.

    http://techcrunch.com/2010/11/29/microsoft-tv-a-bold-move-that-may-blow-up-broadcast/

    http://paidcontent.org/article/419-why-cheaper-cable-opens-a-pandoras-box/
    The very heart of what this thread is about...

    By 2014 or 2015 it may be a new landscape and a Trek series may not go to a linear TV channel but rather a Trek exclusive on-demand channel on Microsoft's XBOX Live HD network and a couple of other providers.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2010
  4. drazzz52923849

    drazzz52923849 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    If it had every bit of greatnes that TNG had times 1000, MAYBE. But otherwise, NO.
     
  5. jefferiestubes8

    jefferiestubes8 Commodore Premium Member

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  6. Temis the Vorta

    Temis the Vorta Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Or everyone could just read the original blastr article which clears up a lot of stubborn misinformation about whether Neilsens are accurate (as far as anyone knows, they are), whether networks have it in for sci fi in particular (nope, TV is just a tough biz) and whether online viewing matters worth a damn (not yet, that's for sure).

    The trend is definitely towards free TV being marooned with only the broadest-reach content, with CBS' lineup being the poster child for that approach. Sci fi will migrate to various sorts of paid models, of which there are two successful ones: basic and premium cable, which vary basically according to how much money goes to produce the shows. Getting consumers to pony up enough money to matter, for still other pay schemes, will be difficult. Isn't one cable bill enough?

    I think online TV will never be successful until the content creators realize they have to do something that people can't get from their basic and premium cable subscriptions, which will motivate them to add to, or even replace, their current cable fee.

    What is that additional thing? Interactivity and socializing. Maybe not interactivity in storytelling, since that easily becomes an unwieldy mess, but the kind of interactivity and socializing you might see right here at TrekBBS, but linked more definitively with the program content.

    TV will evolve into something in between the current format of storytelling on the one hand and games on the other. You already see the inklings of this with American Idol, where input from viewers influences the results. There will be ways to adapt that idea to a fictional setting, as games already do.

    Maybe the way to do this is to work backwards from the result. What would the ultimate Star Trek entertainment experience be like? Easy: a holosuite story where TrekBBS denizens inhabit avatars that allow them to be Spock, Seven, a Klingon, a tribble or whatever floats their boat. This would need to have more structure than just an open-ended playground, but not be so structured that it's just another video game with one path to "winning."

    So, starting from now, what's the next step along the path to that utopian endpoint? Here's one step:


    The Clone Wars
    has convinced me that animated Star Trek could be viable. And CGI animation will be what creates those Spock and Seven avatars we will be donning one day, so let's get the ball rolling now with a traditional-narrative animated series, which eventually spans both traditional TV delivery and online delivery mediums (with TV migrating to be indistinguishable from online).

    And at that point, link the main traditional-narrative series up with game-type audience participation by creating short-run games that spin off of story points from the main series. Make these games low-entry-barrier so that the non-gamers who will make up the bulk of the audience will participate. (There can also be more heavy duty stuff for gamers, in the usual styles, like hand-to-hand combat and flight simulator). And of course there will be plenty of social interaction areas, linked to both the traditional narrative and the games.

    From that point, it's all just a question of how fast the technology advances and making the audience comfortable with new styles of interacting with content. The traditional-narrative style will never completely vanish, but it may become a smaller and smaller part of the overall entertainment experience, which will span a much broader range of things, from people creating their own gaming mods to exchanging recipes for making bloodwine and Romulan ale.

    Anyway, Paramount and CBS are probably too locked into their hidebound mindsets to really become innovative and create a revolution in the entertainment experience. I hate to say it, but Star Wars is more likely to be leading the charge. They're already more aggressive in games and other spinoffs, and they run bumper ads during TCW touting new online games that viewers can play.

    The games have no apparent link to episode content, but that would be so damn easy. "You think Obi-Wan and Anakin really blew this week's fight with Dooku? Log onto www.starwars.com and show us how you'd do better!"

    MAN! Why aren't they already doing that?

    Anyway, I'm getting sick of talking about hulu and streaming. Those are small potatoes. Let's think much much bigger.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2011
  7. jefferiestubes8

    jefferiestubes8 Commodore Premium Member

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    CGI holosuite story

    Temis are you talking about this idea I brought up almost 2 years ago?
    http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=2745337&postcount=31

    and this similar idea I mentioned later?
    http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=3064190&postcount=16
     
  8. AviTrek

    AviTrek Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Change me be upon us. Netflix is rumored to have outbid HBO and AMC for House Of Cards. Link

    If this works out, Netflix may be in a position to buy first run rights for a new Star Trek series.
     
  9. jefferiestubes8

    jefferiestubes8 Commodore Premium Member

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    Yes AviTrek I was thinking about this again. The whole where would a new Star Trek TV series be on television?

    hence non-linear TV channel-type distribution.

    Could CBS Television require Netflix or Hulu Plus, YouTube Premium, or Amazon.com premium subscription services to have a similar commitment to take on the Star Trek TV series distribution?

    Now this is where a new Trek series around 2015 would be ideal. The audience exists and demand is there.
    http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/ent...a-house-of-cards-in-original-programming.html



    http://gigaom.com/video/why-netflixs-house-of-cards-deal-is-all-about-audience-aggregation/
    Yes like archival raw interviews with Trek actors on sets of various TOS, TNG, VOY, ENT, DS9 series.
     
  10. Temis the Vorta

    Temis the Vorta Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Re: CGI holosuite story

    That's a way to create an environment. Now what do people do with it? How do you get them to pay for it? How do you overcome the barrier to participation that happens with gaming environments - where it's simply too hard for people to jump in, so they don't try. Compare that with the passive brainlessness of TV watching - that's a big gulf.
     
  11. Jetfire

    Jetfire Guest

    This. I mean if it airs on CBS or The CW or FOX...then I will sit through the commercials but there is no way I would pay a subscription or pay per episode...I mean if I liked it I would eventually get it on DVD...but I would have to see it relatively free first.

    [edit] All the shows I watch now...I watch when it airs for free on TV or watch it online on the Network's website for free.
     
  12. AviTrek

    AviTrek Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    It looks like All My Children and One Life To Live will both be continuing online after their ABC run ends this year. Now soaps are much cheaper to produce than sci fi dramas, and there is no news about how many episodes will be produced or what the revenue source will be, but if soaps can make it work financially via an online only approach, then it's possible that someone will take a shot at a sci fi show next.
     
  13. jefferiestubes8

    jefferiestubes8 Commodore Premium Member

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    I think there is a huge difference between soap operas with multigenerational audiences of mostly women and a scifi genre tv show to stream/download via a subscription as people noted here in this thread:
    Poll: provider for new Trek series as original series download

    A brand new series with this model is totally different than say a Trek TV series that is in it's 4th season on a linear TV channel and threatened with cancellation. With the right # of people subscribing it could be 'saved'.
    But for say a new Star Trek series with unknown Trek actors for the cast to get off the ground it is a very hard sell.
    It's totally different with someone like Howard Stern who went to Sirius Radio and a bunch of people subscribed. He was basically doing the same style of show.

    I think if someone were to try scifi as a subscription based model it would have to be a Battlestar Galactica series or Stargate or another big franchise with a built-in audience such as the next Battlestar Galactica: Blood & Chrome.

    I think what would work for a new series may be having the 90 minute pilot in theaters and then have a series as a subscription streaming/download online only.
    The pilot could also air on a linear TV channel say a month later after the cinema and then the subscription episodes start say 3 months after the pilot was in digital cinema.
     
  14. AviTrek

    AviTrek Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I think you might be the first person to say BSG and SG are big franchises and Star Trek isn't. In fact, if we put you and Petey in a room together you might annihilate each other.

    Even Enterprise showed Star Trek is at least as big a franchise/draw as BSG/SG. I would argue it's still larger, but the difference we're talking about is minor. Don't get me wrong, I think it will be incredibly hard to launch a new show online. But with Temis arguing that Star Trek could attract 1m viewers to Showtime and pay $15/month subscription, I would think that Star Trek could draw viewers to an online first run show too.

    I'm not saying the finances make sense yet, and I doubt CBS would want to experiment with a marquee franchise, but if a soap can be financially viable online with soap viewers, I would imagine sci fi can't be too far behind.
     
  15. jefferiestubes8

    jefferiestubes8 Commodore Premium Member

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    Showtime vs. Hulu Plus vs. Youtube Premium

    AviTrek i was not saying anything about the size of Star Trek's fanbase or the Nielsen ratings of ENT or past Trek TV series ratings. I was referring to your quote of
    You did not mention CBS Television and I was not thinking that CBS Television would be the one to take a shot since its been said all over TrekBBS that the CBS Television executives that control the Star Trek TV property wouldn't want to put it on television right now and most likely not want to put it on the Internet right now as a new series.
    So I was only discussing other properties of other studios that may be interested since they currently have series in production.




    That is pretty much the same thing as
    15/month for a subscription of a new Trek TV series for say 4 episodes (1 per week) is steep for only Trek.
    I came up with this other thought for a subscription for say $5./month
    Or if YouTube had it solely as a paid subscription.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2011
  16. Gary7

    Gary7 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I wouldn't mind paying a $1 download fee, if it gives me the license to burn it to DVD so I can watch it again. If it's $1 per viewing, then forget it.

    The whole entertainment landscape has changed. I have a feeling that what tends to be defined as "science fiction" now is not quite what it used to be. I'm sick of CGI saturated productions with very little story and character development. Every year, the pool of movies that I can honestly say that I like keeps diminishing. I've started going to the theaters about 2 times per year on average. The last thing that pulled me in was Avatar. It was amazing to see in 3D. But I soon learned that 3D is just a technology and that it's all about how it is put to use. So much junk has come out in 3D that hardly compares, based on what I've heard from so many people first hand.
     
  17. Temis the Vorta

    Temis the Vorta Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Sci fi would be a much better test case than soaps, which don't have nearly as high a % of online savvy audience (which is a double-edged sword due to increased risk of piracy).

    A major hold-up with internet distribution of professionally produced series is that the ad revenue just isn't there. Sponsors are not willing to pay as much for online advertising as on TV.

    LA Times on website soaps.

     
  18. wescrusherfan84

    wescrusherfan84 Ensign Red Shirt

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    i don't understand why we still have shows that play on linear TV why no film 22 hours of a season and put it right out on DVD? i hate to wait... with DVD you can watch as long as you want... start, stop, rewatch... i need DVD... something "REAL" no video file or stearming video... a easy DVD....
     
  19. Sean Aaron

    Sean Aaron Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I was thinking about this idea as a way for someone like Joss Whedon to try to get a complete project made. If you funded it with a few pilot episodes where the studio takes a smaller risk and the subscriber audience is proven then you might be able to get the fans to make some kind of up-front subscription commitment which could convince the studio to take a bigger risk.

    I think eventually you are going to see a PPV aspect to regular TV, but it might be awhile. I personally have no regular TV service: I don't have Sky or cable; nor do I pay TV License fees as a result. I would, however, be willing to essentially buy a box set of a series in advance if it was of interest...say Star Trek?

    Given how well Apple's iTunes film rental service seems to work I definitely think this idea could have legs; just need to get the kit in everyone's lounges hooked up to the 'net to make it possible (I have a Mac Mini hooked up to my TV).
     
  20. jefferiestubes8

    jefferiestubes8 Commodore Premium Member

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    Just this week HULU announced an original series starting in August from producer/director Morgan Spurlock (Supersize me, & "30 Days").
    It is similar to Netflix pickup of a new original series for 2012 with Kevin Spacey.
    By the time the next Trek TV series is in development I think we will see CBS television license it in the USA or have it on an affiliate cable channel rather than CW. That license will probably be a subscription model of a streaming season pass like a NFL season pass just not $300. More like $20./season and I think maybe with 1 sponsor with 5 commercial slots for the show.
    There I said it. I think they would start selling paid season passes while the pilot episode is in preproduction.