Discussion in 'The Next Generation' started by treknician1701, Jan 22, 2014.
Page 128 of the edition I have mentions that body doubles were used.
Probability dictates, treknician1701's claim is of highly dubious nature. Proof could be given by asking Marina herself, if it was indeed her and Majel OR Stand-Ins. The latter just make much more sense.
Maybe Greg Stone and Ed Mariecki had just assumed it had been those 2 actresses. Nobody here basically calls Greg a liar - but Greg should also be open to the suggestion, that what he/they saw simply wasn't what he/they assumed.
It does seem unlikely but so fun to contemplate, heh. Like i was surprised to see pictures of Sigourney Weaver and Veronica Cartwright topless in the Alien hypersleep chamber. Apparently, they were all supposed to be naked originally but then the studio dictated what we ultimately see in the final product.
See how people jump to conclusions? NOWHERE have I ever said that it was Ed MIARECKI in the set with me. It was Majel's assistant, who was named Ed! We were only on the set for a very short time, since Ed was so upset, but I saw what I saw, and I don't care who says what. If Marina is asked personally, I am confident that she will clear up the fact that while that shot was filmed, it was not a standin, and that they were both naked.
MY GOD, people.
Answer: I was there with Edward, Majel's assistant, as I had stated in the original story, or did you miss that part?
I simply don't believe anything you've said so far.
EDIT: It would be real simple for Mr. Okuda (Mike Okuda) to verify who you are and the stories you're telling. All you have to do is send him a PM since he is a member here.
Without taking a stance on the subject, I think you guys are talking about two different shots.
1) The medium shot of Troi and Lwaxana, which would have have been done with Marina and Majel, which is what I believe Mr. Stone saw on set.
2) The wider shot of Troi and Lwaxana filmed from behind, which is what everyone else is discussing and very likely was filmed with stand-ins.
So, I think you're having two different arguments. I think the point you're trying to argue about is whether (1) was shot with or without concealing parts of the lead actresses.
Pics, or it didn't happen!
Further points to consider:
When the production was shooting "Yesterday's Enterprise," one of the guys who wrote the story treatment (Stillwell? Ganino?) was constantly going down to the set and visiting, watching scenes being shot and interacting with the actors. When Rick Berman found out, he had security tightened or at the very least banned unnecessary personnel from being on the stages while filming took place. (I believe this is covered in "The Making of Yesterday's Enterprise" book.)
More importantly, why in the world would there be such easy access to the stages when such a scene (in Menage a Troi) was being filmed?
You seem awfully proud of what, if true, appears to be some pretty juvenile and unprofessional behavior. Why would you even talk about something like that?
PLEASE, people! You are ripping this thing to DEATH! Mike Okuda hates my guts, and has said publically that I had NEVER worked on the show, then that was changed to I had worked on a "couple of episodes", and now, who knows! BillJ, you are (it seems) a big fan of Mike's (an open letter to the okudas thread), and your only reason for being here is to rip me apart, same with Maurice, who I had known previously, and Doubleohfive. All with agendas to rip me apart, or get this thread shut down like they had done with the STTNG video thread. That is their only goal.
Marina can straighten this out, so can Edward, but I doubt that you would believe him, if he came on here, because he is a friend of "Greg Stone"!!
BTW, I had visited the set of "Yesterday's Enterprise" many times, and I had never been yelled at by Rick Berman or anyone else! I was on the sets MANY times, and had NEVER been told to leave, or was banned from the sets! I was known around the lot, and never had any problems with anyone. Rick Berman was a pretty nice guy to work with, as was Joe Longo, who recently passed away, he was a great guy. I never had a problem with Mike Okuda until AFTER I left, and that video was passed around and massive copies were made of it! Plus, after that point, he found out that I had dated his wife about 10 years BEFORE they met, and he didn't like that, or me.
Anyway, people, just cool your jets!
My only goal is to make sure I'm getting the truth. As far as being a fan of the Okuda's, you'll have to refresh my memory as I have only spoke to Mr. Okuda a couple of times here and this is the only Trek board that I'm a member of.
If only you had brought your video camera to the sets that day.
The only agenda here is to get to the truth.
Based on your own history and alleged experience (which you have shared with us here) you are what they call in the storytelling world "an unreliable narrator." (Note: That's not a flame, it's a statement based on pure observation and participation in both your threads since you joined this message board last week.)
Given this, and your predilection for kleptomania and your well established reputation on other message boards like the Replica Prop Forum, I don't see any reason at all why anyone should be questioned or impugned for not taking your claims at face value. Three times already, I have cited sources that disprove or challenge the assertions you are insisting are true, yet you are unable to provide any kind of secondary source to back your claim up beyond your own IMDB page (which you wrote) and your oft mentioned friend "Ed."
I'm not buying it. Years ago, on this message board, there was a poster named Dalamar7 who pulled a very similar schtick, claiming to have been on staff at both TNG and DS9, available during wardrobe fitting hours and having been privvy to seeing just about all the actors completely naked while they dressed. People fell for it hook, line and sinker until it was proven that Dalamar7 was completely full of shit and just trolling this board.
You've posted some interesting photos of some models and the sets. That seems to be where your bread and butter are. Yet you continue to persist with these stories, each more outlandish than the last, yet no stories about actual work you did for TNG. I'm not the only person noticing this discrepancy but every time it's mentioned, you casually ignore it in favor of playing victim again as if you're being persecuted.
Treknician1701, I don't have as... *ahem* a strong of an opinion about you as others around here seem to have developed since you've started posting here. Your posting style strikes me as "offensively defensive" if that makes any sense but, overall, I've got no real opinion of you. One is forming and it's not a "good" one but anymore that's my default position on people when the opinion starts forming.
I'm still willing to give you "some" benefit of the doubt but right now... You're not coming across too good.
This is an attempt at friendly advice, by the way I am in no way an official for the board.
I'd like to see you continue posting here as it's always nice to have people who've worked on the show(s)/movies around but... you probably need to dial back to 8 or so.
From my perspective you've got a lot of a battle to fight since you're fighting against people who're *very* big in the production side of things who're more grounded with the fandom. It's going to be hard for us to take your word over the word of the Okudas or quoted excerpts from the various books published on the series over the years.
It's nothing personal but if the Okudas say one thing and you say another I'm more likely to believe them. They've just got that much more weight and clout than you do. It's not fair, sure, but it's life. I suspect that's where a lot of people are coming from. Why should we take your word here for it when it contradicts things that've been said, or written, for years?
If your story is indeed true or more in line with the facts than, yeah, it's a shame your name is tarnished but, let's be fair, you did gain access to a set after hours and film it. That's not going to get too many people on your side. And even if damaged or missing props/set items did occur by someone else it's hard to not look at the guy we *know* got onto the set and filmed himself doing it rather than saying "maybe someone else did it." Unfortuantely it could be a case where you're like the trope of the mis-identified killer in a movie because you entered the room, picked up the murder weapon and started asking the victim if he's okay. Yeah, you didn't do it but right now things aren't looking in your favor.
My advice to you would be to take it easy and try to be more part of the community here and maybe accept the way things might look to those of us on the outside. I, personally, will give you the benefit of the doubt that you weren't responsible for stolen or damaged set items and are just a victim of circumstance and that there's just been confusing information over the years on what happened. But not everyone is going to be like me.
Take it easy and accept where people stand right now.
Try joining in a more passive discussion with us and you'll find people more accepting.
I, like Trekker4747, don't have much of an opinion, other than the fact that I've been intrigued with the story since I heard about it ten or so years ago, and I'm quite enjoying the stories and photos you're providing.
I also agree on the "offensively defensive," point, but I also believe that posters like BillJ and doubleohfive are being offensively critical of everything Treknician1701 says to the point where they're derailing the thread. (the OP simply ignoring the trolling comments would also be helpful as to not feed the argument.)
I have no problem if it's constructive to the conversation or points out an actual error in a statement (such as was done with photos of the saucer slice model, or the needless destruction of props), but pointed remarks such as "I simply don't believe anything you've said so far," don't add anything to the discussion and just lead to more derailing of the thread.
If you don't like what's being said or don't believe the source, either provide evidence stating your point (as has been done before, but "well I heard this guy once said..." isn't very helpful), or ignore the topic and carry on believe the OP is a fraud.
Well, that is good advice, Trekker, however, even though NOTHING was ever reported stolen from the sets, no props, panels or costumes, and no reported damage to any of the sets, I know, I CHECKED! However, Mike Okuda, Doug Drexler (allegedly) and several others had stated that there were things stolen, and that I had stolen them, cost MILLIONS of dollars of damage to the set, which had to be shut down from production, and a TON of other allegations, where there is completely no proof at all!
Some of these people, that you say I will find more accepting, will NEVER accept me, because of what I did to their precious Star Trek. It's like the whole John Lennon/ Jesus Christ statement all over again. He was MISQUOTED, and likewise, I am being unfairly slandered and attacked from all sides. The best thing to do is just shut down this thread, since that is what everyone seems to want, and fade away under a rock, as someone said.
Yeah, it does seem some posters want to quickly put him on the defense and are being a bit needlessly critical of him. And, again, it comes from citing sources we've all had for decades now sources who're published and entrenched in the fandom. Again, it comes a lot easier to believe something read in the Companion, Encyclopedia or the Okuda's social networking pages than it is to believe a virtual unknown.
I think those attacking him need to maybe back-off a bit and maybe present a counter-claim in a less aggressive manner? But the OP has to make that claim also a bit less aggressively.
Work needs to be made on both sides.
Hey treknician1701 if you're planning on sticking with this thread, can you tell us about some work you did on the show? Not "spicy" stories, but actual work. Who you worked for/with (first names if you can't give full names), what exactly was your part in the making of one of the shows, etc. Even if it sounds boring, I would find it interesting. Can't speak for everybody else, of course. Also, any pics of you with any of the cast/crew on set or on the lot?
I'm afraid this thread jumped the shark long ago and I was foolishly hoping it would find the tracks again. Guess not. The OP asked me in a PM to delete it but I think I'll just close it and let it sink slowly beneath the waves. Really sad that it became a credibility war instead of a fun look at some history of the show.
Separate names with a comma.