Woman shot following Walking Dead argument

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by the G-man, Dec 5, 2012.

  1. Forbin

    Forbin Admiral Admiral

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    The gun control argument is kind of moot, isn't it? The guy used a .22 rifle, which apart from shotguns is the LEAST restricted type of firearm in the world.
     
  2. Starkers

    Starkers Admiral Admiral

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    That’s a bit spurious really given that the banning of guns in the UK is unlikely to have had much of an impact on crime rates. We weren’t like the Wild West beforehand, it isn’t like every granny had a Saturday night special in her handbag and every homeowner had an M-16 under the bed, and for the majority of the population the post Dunblane legislation would have had very little impact on their daily lives.

    I could quote stats from this year that shows crime rates in the UK continuing to fall as they have since ’95 (though any stats are open to interpretation, one the one hand there’s the question of whether people are reporting all crimes, but on the other it’s worth noting that something daft like 38% of reported gun crime in Scotland relates to air rifles!)

    Still if we’re throwing articles around…

    This dovetails neatly with the view in the UK that carrying a knife makes you more likely to be stabbed.

    This isn't gonna change your views, any more than your stats will change mine. All I know is that I live in the UK and have never felt unsafe because I didn't have a gun. I haven't grown up around guns so I have a hard time understanding the viewpoint of many Americans regarding guns, in the same way I imagine many Americans wouldn't understand my viewpoint.

    And yes, nutters will always find a way (a month or so ago somebody went nuts with a transit van in Wales) but a gun does make it easier, and whilst cars kill people all the time that isn't their designed purpose, they're a mode of transport primarily, whereas a gun's primary function is to kill (whether it's people or animals).

    One final point, I get the idea that owning a gun gives you a perceived security against criminals, but I find the notion that somehow gun ownership keeps the government in check rather silly. At the end of the day if a totalitarian regieme took over guns in private hands wouldn't make a huge difference. the army/police force are always going to outnumber you, and are always going to be better armed and better trained.

    I realise there'll be a Red Dawn response to this but just wanted my tuppence worth :)
     
  3. Starkers

    Starkers Admiral Admiral

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    I'm just amazed he shot her in the back rather than the head given what was in the forefront of his mind at the time...
     
  4. PKerr

    PKerr Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    BTW just so everyone knows, I am a HUGE believer in gun control, a full clip center mass is pretty damn good gun control IMO. ;)
     
  5. Forbin

    Forbin Admiral Admiral

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    ^"Nice grouping!" :)
     
  6. Aeronef

    Aeronef Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    That's a lot like saying "don't blame the cigarettes for lung cancer, blame the people who smoke them."

    I'm glad that you mentioned driving and texting, because the real reason for not restricting or prohibiting guns is the same as the reason for not restricting or prohibiting cars, or cell phones--or for that matter, cigarettes.

    That is to say: because, in the minds of the people who own and use and enjoy these items, and the people who depend on the manufacture and sale of these items for their livelihood, their utility outweighs the inevitable and predictable costs of allowing them. Everything else is just rationalization.

    Mass cigarette smoking leads, inevitably and predictably, to mass lung cancer. Mass automobile ownership leads, inevitably and predictably, to mass auto accidents, injuries, and deaths. And the easy availability of guns leads, inevitably and predictably, to widespread gun violence.

    The decision to tolerate all this collateral damage rests entirely on the calculation that our own convenience and pleasure and profit outweigh the risks to ourselves and (especially) to others. Other people are always acceptable losses.

    In the case of personal automobiles, their utility is so obvious, and their appeal is so nearly universal, that almost nobody would think of trying to ban them, despite the mayhem they cause. Cigarettes, by contrast, have no utility, and their appeal has been declining for decades: the result has been a steady increase in restrictions on their sale and use. Guns fall in between the two extremes, which is why they're so controversial.
     
  7. Magellan

    Magellan Commander Red Shirt

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    Well the problem with the gun control debate is that, as far as I am aware the data associating mass gun ownership with mass gun violence is far less clear. The US does have a lot of gun violence but a state by state analysis doesnt show a particularly strong relationship between gun ownership and gun violence. Northern US states with very high gun ownership dont have particularly high violent crime rates.

    If the data were very clear cut there may be more support in the US for repealing our 2nd amendment, but it isn't. In this one particular case it may be that had he had no gun the crime may never had occur but it doesn't tell any of us how many gun crimes in general would be prevented by banning guns or for that matter how many more crimes would occur without legal gun ownership.As an American if the data were only so-so or a wash in reduction of violence versus restricting gun ownership I will go with the free-er choice myself

    In the example of the UK or other countries it is worth considering several facts

    1) The UK is an island nation. I would imagine that makes border smuggling a tad bit harder

    2) If the UK had as many firearms per capita as the US when restricting ownership it is entirely probably that there would be so many firearms available that criminals would be easily able to obtain them.


    To the original post this is tragic, not unexpected and very likely not very related to guns or the walking dead
     
  8. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The inner cities do, and if you live in one of their suburbs you read about new shootings every day in the morning paper.
     
  9. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Oh bloody hell...who would even think of blaming the show or its writers/producers for this shit? It's a fucking TV show. Millions of people watch it with no ill effects.
     
  10. Pingfah

    Pingfah Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Considering cigarettes don't give you lung cancer if you eat them, that seems reasonable.
     
  11. Kegg

    Kegg Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    M. Laser Beam - I don't think anyone was blaming Walking Dead.

    Good.

    You cannot do the amount of damage that was done in Denver within the same relatively short timeframe without a gun, or a weapon and/or materials that - in America - is more difficult to acquire than a gun. This is why I had basically no fear of any copycat crimes occurring when I sat down in a theatre to watch Dark Knight Rises the same day as the Denver massacre.

    It's ease of access combined with lethality. When you have people who aren't too bright - and/or are clearly mentally disturbed - and you give them that level of firepower, you get Tucson and Denver and what have you.
     
  12. Caligula

    Caligula Vice Admiral Admiral

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    While that's true, in that case you'd potentially be dealing with mouth cancer instead... or stomach, liver, bladder, colon or possibly even pancreatic cancer if you foolishly swallow it. Some part of you is getting poisoned no matter what.
     
  13. Forbin

    Forbin Admiral Admiral

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    ^Chewing tobacco causes mouth cancer.
    but it's MANLY!!! :borg:
     
  14. Pingfah

    Pingfah Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Well of course, but that wasn't really the point. The point is that the person knowingly ingesting something poisonous is most definitely to blame for poisoning themselves. It's a pretty poor analogy for gun violence at any rate.
     
  15. Caligula

    Caligula Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Oh, it's okay. I knew where you were going with that. I was just having a bit of fun with it. I completely agree that it's a very poor analogy.