WIP - TMP Enterprise, deck by deck

Discussion in 'Fan Art' started by CTM, May 12, 2009.

  1. Bernard Guignard

    Bernard Guignard Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Truth be told I'd be looking forward to a 3d model of a TMP Captain's Chair:techman: I've drawn schematics in Autocad Lite 97 but I don't know if they are
    scaled properly.
     
  2. ncc-1017-e

    ncc-1017-e Captain Captain

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    ^ Love to see the chair man!
     
  3. CTM

    CTM Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Only two pics for tonight. I spent too long into the evening working on the visible framework in the cargo bay and shuttle hangar. I was forced into the conclusion that I cannot connect the turbolift through the shuttlebay, and still be anywhere close to the on-screen images. Not much visible to show for the effort, but I am closing in on the end of building the inside of the cargo bay. One more deck with the shuttle-bay to go, and I'll be done with that. A couple more decks, and the secondary hull will be ready to actually frame and complete.
    [​IMG]


    and the wide shot from the other quarter:
    [​IMG]
     
  4. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    This is some really tremendous work, CTM. :techman:
     
  5. Cary L. Brown

    Cary L. Brown Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Hi CTM...

    I haven't used AutoCAD in ages, but I'm curious about something. I seem to remember that the "3D capability in AutoCAD was fairly limited... mainly just linear extrusion of 2D sketches, no "complex curve" capabilities. At least in the early implementation... and more recently, AutoDeck treats "Inventor" as their preferred 3D solution.

    So... for those "complex curved" shapes (ie, hull walls, etc)... have you figured out how best to do those using your toolset? Or, am I mistaken about how this works, and it has that ability well-implemented already?

    Just wondering... :)
     
  6. CTM

    CTM Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Complex curves are a problem. Especially for modeling. My approach is to use the 3-d edge-surf to create a high-density mesh for say a warped or twisted sheet of paper (or metal, or ...), and then explode that into it's constituent parts, and reassemble as a solid. It is not great, but it works. I have long since gotten used to the limitations on the complex 3D curves, and simply work around as best I can. For this project, if I have any such curves, I will likely create them as basic meshes, and leave it at that. I cannot think of anything on this project though that will be that complicated. The Secondary Hull is essentially a 2-d curve rotated about the axis, with parts cut out and other parts added on. The primary hull is essentially a 2-d curve spun about a different axis, but is far simpler. I can only think of the three "bumps" around the deflector (Port, Starboard, and Below) that might have issues - and I doubt I'll have much problem with them.

    Now Excelsior, on the other hand, might be a bit more challenging. A Galaxy Class even moreso. My solution for those though is that the mechanical implementation of such ships will still follow a basic mathematical approximation, with the ribs of the hull defining (rather than describing) the contours. Hull plates are basically flat or slightly warped pieces attached to the ribs. a "linear" breakdown of a complex curve is acceptable, if the edges line up with the underlying structure.

    AutoCAD before R12 was very limited in 3D capability. It was as you say, extrapolation of 2D lines. Some basic meshes could also be generated. R12 introduced the solid-modeling capability, and R13 improved upon it. There are still limitations, and certainly it is not comparable to a modern version, but it does 98% of what I need it to, and I can "fill in the gaps" on the remainder manually.
     
  7. CTM

    CTM Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I decided to enclose the forward end of the shuttle-bay tonight, trying to keep the best of both TMP and TFF, and to permit turbolift access to the shuttle-bay and associated hangars.

    [​IMG]


    and the wider field of view
    [​IMG]
    There are pressure doors permitting access to the shuttle elevators (port elevator is green). I have reworked the Q-deck side portions of the shuttle-bay, but have not yet built the "cuby-holes" for the Work-bees and other associated hardware, nor have I added the landing-lights and other flight-deck hardware.
     
  8. Cary L. Brown

    Cary L. Brown Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well, I know you're working from pre-existing blueprints for the most part, but I have to toss this out there...

    Does a ship this size REALLY need that many lift stations? I mean... honestly... the secondary hull isn't that long. Put a single station about midway down the hull... and it's how far, again, to the most distant part of that deck?

    This is a personal pet-peeve of mine... no wonder Scotty became overweight... he never had to walk more than ten steps between any room and any lift tube! :lol:

    Seriously... the shuttle-bay tube seems sorta silly to me. Two main "vertical" tubes (midway down the hull, port and starboard, in the cargo deck area) seems MORE than enough, doesn't it?
     
  9. CTM

    CTM Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I agree, except....
    We see in TMP the two tubolift tubes running inside the cargo bay. There is an access point on the top level for ease of access to the docking ports. There is not one on the cargo-mid-deck, and presumably there is one on the bottom deck of the cargo bay. Additionally, the Cargo-Mid-Bay does not appear to be intended for walk-through in all states. Probert indicated he saw retractable decking that would cover all or most of the base of the bay to allow the stacking of more cargo modules. You can see from his plates that there are no guardrails lining the mid-deck like there are lining the high-deck. The top 2/3 of the cargo bay access the shuttle elevators and hangar bays. Visible on Probert's plates the "elevator shaft" runs to a deck above the cargo bay, making the shaft 3 decks high. The top two decks of the shaft access the shuttle-bay (which tops out a deck higher still). Probert indicated that there is equipment etc. between the elevators themelves that was "retracted" to open the space for cargo loading.

    In TFF we see an enclosed shuttle bay, with two doors flanking a single turbo-lift entrance in the middle of the forward portion of the bay. Having this turbolift configuration works well as a compromise between the versions, and can easily be explained as a post TMP change that makes onboard operations smoother.

    Under the strict TMP position*, of just the pair of shafts running through the secondary hull, there is NO turbolift access to R-deck, and the access to S-deck is only through the cargo bay. To access the Shuttle Hangar (especially if you have supplies or equipment to move in/out for a landing party or shuttlecraft repairs) you have to go to Q-deck (Cargo High Bay) and then take a shuttle elevator down, or find a "jeffries tube" or ladder/stairway connector. Viable, but certainly not ideal. Adding a Turbolift between the elevators makes sense, allowing access to the Shuttle Hangar for easier/faster movement.

    For practicalities sake, I have to add at least one vertical tube to the secondary hull, either forward or aft of the cargo bay (or I have to add a lift station to the Cargo Mid Bay). In TFF we see a lift station midline forward in the shuttle bay, presumably between the shuttle elevators. This fits well with the other placements, and I find is a reasonable comprimise between the two depictions. R-deck is still served limitedly - the only access points are the ladders/one-man-lifts in Engineering, any other "Jeffries tubes" I add later (I will always provide a non tubo-lift way to get through the ship), and the lift station in the hangar (below the shuttle-bay). I would like to add a forward access point for R-deck, but don't see a good way to do it without having turbolifts running everywhere. The lifts I have depicted represent those we have seen in the two films (TMP and TFF), and work well from a practicality standpoint. Adding another would, I feel, be overkill.

    *Of course, under strict TMP position, the hull needs to be almost twice as wide to permit the corridors visible extending latterally away from the cargo bay to connect to something other than the outer hull. That Cargo Bay is a sizeable volume in the middle of the secondary hull. Connected with the Shuttle Hangars and Shuttle Bay, it is quite simply the largest contiguous (even if it can easily be compartmented) volume on the ship, by far. It consumes MOST of the volume of the secondary hull, and under a capacity load, I would see contributing very nearly a plurality of the mass of the ship.

    This of course begs the question: What is the cargo loadout of a Constitutuion Class Starship at 1) the start of a 5-year mission? 2) the middle of said mission? 3) at the end of the mission? The designers obviously included a massive cargo capacity, what was the intended use?
     
  10. CTM

    CTM Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I built Main Engineering tonight. One more deck to go (and a small one at that), and I can start framing the hull.

    First, the profile: [​IMG]

    Then the standard forward and aft perspectives:
    [​IMG]
    The forward Turbolift is where it is because the forward edge of the neck is immediately above that shaft. I have no choice but to route the lift tube through the neck ahead of the Vertical Intermix Chamber (reference the discussion in the Tech forum). There is precious little space on O-deck that is available for full-height compartments (actually, Main Engineering is a 20% taller than the other decks in the secondary hull). The lifts route around Main Engineering, with a station dead-aft with access to a partial-height deck down to the control room above the doors to the shuttle bay. Dorsal Secondary Phasers are also located in this space.
    [​IMG]
    and a tighter shot to get the horizontal intermix chamber:
    [​IMG]

    As I finish these decks, I feel more and more like this is a real structure I am working with. Far more real to me now than pouring over all the 2-d plans in the world.
    Once I frame the hull, I will have the proper limitations on the outer edges of compartments and structures, and will trim the protruding decks accordingly. Some of the "crawl spaces" I have not even begun to mess with, as I don't really know how much space I'll have to work with.
    The next deck actually is mostly "crawl space" with some interface into the neck, but will allow me to define the upper edge of the secondary hull.
     
  11. Bernard Guignard

    Bernard Guignard Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Looking good so far keep it up :techman:
     
  12. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Agreed. :techman:
     
  13. Cary L. Brown

    Cary L. Brown Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    A suggestion... take it or leave it...

    At this point, with the majority of the decks already laid in, I'd seriously consider putting some "rings" around the periphery of the deck structures you've created. The secondary hull is, after all, circular in every cross-section (albeit, I'm not 100% convinced that every circle shares the same axis... anyone able to confirm that as the case or not?).

    So... putting a "shell" around these decks at this point (ideally a transparent one, or at least one that has huge holes you can see through!) seems like the obvious next step to me.

    Just what I'd do... it's your project, have fun! :)
     
  14. miraclefan

    miraclefan Commodore Commodore

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    Nice work so far.
     
  15. CTM

    CTM Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I'm actually about halfway through doing just that right now (I'm referring to that as "framing the hull"). I'm on my second attempt to get it right (I wasn't pleased with how the first iteration of it was proceeding, so I abandoned that effort)
     
  16. CTM

    CTM Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    So, while the last picture renders, I will post my progress for the evening.
    I set out to frame the secondary hull. I first started by trying to extrapolate from the plan decks a circle at 2m intervals along the length of the hull. I wound up with wildly varying hull contours, so I abandoned that attempt in favor of selecting a custom extrapolation from the contours of Q and R decks (Q deck is a little above centerline, R deck is a bit below centerline). Once I had the hull contour (which I took to be the inside edge of the hull), I created slices at 2m intervals running perpendicular to the axis of the hull, so I had a series of rings spaced 2m apart from front to rear. I added supports for each deck, and incorporated them into each ring. I only got as far as the aft end of the shuttle elevators, but I am happy with the progress so far.

    As I expected, quite a bit of the structure on the decks is either too far inside the hull, or too far outside the hull. Once I have the hull cross-section framing completed, I will reposition what I can to be inside the hull (or remove it all together). Once that is done, I will go back and add the fore-aft framing. The exterior hull is far more easily generated from the original contours I used to generate the frames.

    First, the wireframe fore and aft:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    And the renders:
    [​IMG]
    As you can see, Main Engineering is a tight fit. I may end up dropping the whole deck a bit to make things fit better.
    The last picture finished rendering while I typed.
    [​IMG]
    I will almost certainly wind up cutting out some of the "slack space" between decks that are in the current design. Most decks I can reduce by almost 1/3 and still fit what has to be there.
     
  17. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    WOW! Beautiful work! Watching this with great anticipation. I tried doing something similar w/ Virtus WalkThrough back in 1995, but the technology wasn't there yet. Only managed to get the Bridge done w/ the "B" & "C" decks and main engineering. You've definitely gone leaps and bounds beyond my efforts and it looks fantastic. Will this eventually be interactive (working turbolifts, doors, collision detection, etc.) for a full-experience walk-thru?
     
  18. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Wow, so how easy is it going to be to slice out the parts that don't fit?
     
  19. Firebird

    Firebird Captain Captain

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    WOW! These new renders are making me salivate!

    Nicely done.
     
  20. CTM

    CTM Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I may be able to build the actual models, but I have a LONG way to go towards learning Rendering and Animation - though I do have a friend who is willing to do some high-quality texture mapping / rendering. I'll be sending him the model when I finish the secondary hull - probably sometime next month.

    Blisteringly easy. I've been out of town for a few days, but got back to the ship tonight. I have the bottom half of the hull done already, reference the pics farther down.

    Thank you. Now, if I can only manage to import this to a high-quality rendering program.... ;)

    Since I have been out of town since my last post, I didn't get to see reactions until tonight. I have made some progress, and have divided the hull into manageable slices. I wound up shortening T and U decks by about 1/3 each, making them fit much better into the hull. The downside is that the Botanical Garden is not as tall as I originally had hoped it would be.

    I have lain out a partial rib-plan for each deck (extrapolated from the ring-ribs on a 2-m spacing). For visibility sake, I only am showing the starboard ribs, and the starboard hull. I did decide to do away with the pool on T-deck, and am making that into a standard Gym.
    [​IMG]
    I have had to toss out some of the lifeboats. Those that remain, the shafts extend to the hull, where "blow out" panels will allow them to exit the ship. I note that in doing the support framing around the intermix chamber I wound up with that on the wrong layer, so that rib is not visible on this wireframe, but I caught that in time to include it in the render that follows:
    [​IMG]
    Several of the corridors did not fit well orthogonally, so I wound up setting them on angles. It is not evident from this image, but the forward most corridors are NOT running straight fore-aft.
    I'll probably get the remainder of the secondary hull fitting done in the next day or so, and then I'll be in position to finish the framing. I will then go back and install the windows/portholes and the docking ports. Before I finish the uppermost decks and framing I will have to build out the neck and nacelle pylons - so that I can put in the requisite structures to support them.