William T. Riker - Character Assassination or Praise

Discussion in 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' started by Tom, Jul 2, 2013.

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What do you think of Riker?

  1. He is amazing and respected.

    24 vote(s)
    45.3%
  2. He is tolerable.

    7 vote(s)
    13.2%
  3. He is just ok, but could be better

    10 vote(s)
    18.9%
  4. He is a Jerk!

    12 vote(s)
    22.6%
  1. Trek Sifter

    Trek Sifter Ensign Red Shirt

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    Definitely would've been a great idea! Will became rather stale (or in Troi's words, "matured")--I mean, his approach became more "cautious," less career-oriented...predictable. There wasn't much that could be done with him anymore. Tom, on the other hand, would've brought more mystery, more options, more exploration that also would reflect on could've-been for Will. They did waste Tom.

    As for jerk or not? I'd say he was cocky in the early seasons, but understandably so, I suppose, with youthful ambition/vigor. But later, it came across more as bitterness with himself (bitterness that extended to lack of tolerance for others not in his clique).
     
  2. xvicente

    xvicente Captain Captain

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    Last edited: Jul 3, 2013
  3. Opus

    Opus Commodore Commodore

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    Riker was awesome.

    Who else could walk into every room with that swagger, head cocked to the side, turn chest first and straddle his leg over a chair to sit better that Will Riker? Classic!
     
  4. Vulcan Logician

    Vulcan Logician Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Yeah, Riker was cool. Only character flaw: he had no decency as far as putting his leg up on things and putting his crotch in people's faces. Plus, the way he mounted/dismounted a chair.


    Favorite Riker Line: "What the hell is going on?"
     
  5. Ain Jalut

    Ain Jalut Lieutenant

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    Who would seduce the chick of the week then Geordi?
     
  6. USS Firefly

    USS Firefly Captain Captain

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    A new first officer, the twin brother/ clone of Riker. :)
     
  7. TheSubCommander

    TheSubCommander Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I didn't think Riker was a jerk at all (well, except maybe to Troi, as I explain later). In fact, as a character, I liked him and glad he stayed on the show. That said, the problem is that Riker was INITIALLY portrayed as an ambitious, up and coming prodigy officer who was supposed to be on the fast track to Captain, and whom chose between career and Troi, prior to taking the assignment aboard the Enterprise. Then he stays on as first officer for 15 years for not one, but two Enterprises...nearly an entire career! Totally inconsistent with his character.

    Now, it could be argued that he stayed, at least in part, because he was hoping to re-kindle something with Troi (which he did...just took him like 12 years to do it!), but pretty much all through the TNG series, he treated her like a doormat, and rubbed in her face his women of the week. So if he stayed for Troi, and unless they were swingers or something, it was written pretty inconsistently, and in-universe, was pretty sadistic of him.

    This is why I am a fan of the idea that never will be, that Tom Riker should have replaced Will Riker in season 4. It literally, and no pun intended, was the best of both worlds: you could keep Riker AND Frakes on the show, yet do it in a way that could expand the character. After all, Tom Riker literally IS Will Riker. Also, with Will Riker gone, that would have automatically made Data First Officer, and it would make total sense to have Data as first officer indefinitely. Unlike Riker, Data would not have the ego to bruise or human ambition and could conceivably be content as First Officer for decades. After all, Data was supposed to be the longest serving starfleet officer aboard the Enterprise-D, after Picard, was he not?

    One last thought: I could not stand Shelby! At all. Her ONLY purpose was to demonstrate that Riker had become too comfortable as First Officer and needed a fire lit under his ass and step up to the plate in BOBW. That's it. She was not intended as a replacement, and I think it ironic Riker gets a rep for being a jerk by all the Riker haters, yet Shelby gets all this love by some people for some reason. She was a total jerk...way worse and way more cocky than Riker ever was in his worst episode. Had she replaced Riker, I think it would have completely changed the dynamic of the cast and show...and not for the better.
     
  8. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Shelby could still do that.
     
  9. Tom

    Tom Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    HMMM that would have been interesting :drool:;)
     
  10. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

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    [​IMG]

    Riker assumes the position.

    --Sran
     
  11. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Clean Old Mod Moderator

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    I think part of the problem was that they oversold the character from the get-go...he'd already turned down one command to take the first officer position on the Enterprise, and was given the opportunity to turn down a second as early as Season 2. If they'd wanted to keep him in his position without making it seem like he wasn't growing, they should have had him still striving to prove that he was ready for the big chair...maybe even give him a tarnish on his record that he was trying to make up for. There'd be no need for a Tom Riker solution if Will Riker had been given somewhere to go in the first place.
     
  12. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

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    If "The Pegasus" had been written earlier, that may have provided the black mark you're talking about. Maybe an earlier fallout from those events sees Riker demoted with Data (or Shelby) taking over as first officer. Riker eventually regains Picard's trust and is reinstated as his right hand, but only after proving that he's capable of making difficult decisions without comprising Starfleet regulations.

    The new-and-improved Riker carries himself with much greater humility and makes an effort to befriend junior officers like Lavelle or Sito rather than ostracizing them because of poor performance or inexperience.

    --Sran
     
  13. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Clean Old Mod Moderator

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    ^Or if he'd already had a public "Pegasus"-type stain on his record from the get-go, rather than it being a secret that was kept for several years. Picard could have been the only captain in the fleet willing to give him a second chance because of his talent/potential, and would have expected 200% from him in return.
     
  14. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I heard Frakes hates that they had Riker turn down commands.

    It might have been okay if they went one of two routes. First, Riker would rather be on the frontline than have a command out in the middle of nowhere, which they did once or twice. Second, having political reasons why nobody wants to give Riker a command like some stain on his resume, but Roddenberry would have never allowed that. Instead they chose the path of "I just love my friends on the Enterprise so much" which was a huge mistake.

    It's true Riker didn't develop much after BoBW, but he was still quite effective in his role as XO.
     
  15. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

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    ^Effective, yes. But not realistic. People don't routinely turn down promotion when offered it, not more than once in any event.

    It would have made more sense for Riker to have his own ship after "The Best of Both Worlds" and for Shelby to replace him as Enterprise first officer. Riker could have remained a semi-regular for the remainder of the fourth season, perhaps popping up every few episodes with his new ship and crew to give the Enterprise a hand. It actually would have been a nice touch with the outbreak of the Klingon Civil War and might have provided some nice parallel plots.

    By the end of the year, Riker could have been completely on his own, and Shelby would have been established as Picard's new right hand. I know that Roddenberry wanted to paint a picture of harmony and cohesion, but he could have done that without having Riker rooted in place for so many years.

    Obviously, Gene wasn't to blame for anything that happened following his death (and his involvement in the years leading up to that was minimal), but the idea that someone would turn down better jobs because he liked the idea of never leaving his friends doesn't make sense. I would have been okay with Riker staying until the end of the TV series if he had his own ship by the time Generations was ready to hit theaters. When he finally left to command Titan, I wasn't really happy for him. I was glad he finally decided to move on.

    --Sran
     
  16. xvicente

    xvicente Captain Captain

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    Not exactly after TBOBW. Picard was just recovering from locutusitis, bettre keep Riker there. Also, after wolf 249 there were not so many ships left thus captain posts available.
     
  17. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Clean Old Mod Moderator

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    Let's keep in mind that a conceit of the series was that serving on the Enterprise was so much better than being in command of a lesser ship....

    Shelby used to get on my nerves, but upon recently rewatching BOBW, I thought it was a waste that they didn't keep her in some capacity, even with Riker still serving as First Officer. The series needed a stronger female lead to replace Tasha...one who wouldn't have been breaking vases over people's heads in "Q-Pid".
     
  18. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

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    What's Wolf 249?

    --Sran
     
  19. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

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    I thought she'd have done a nice job as a strategic operations officer, similar to what Worf did on DS9. It seemed like that's what she was doing for Admiral Hanson, so why not have her continue while being groomed to eventually take over the XO position from Riker when he finally takes his chair mounting skills to another vessel?

    --Sran
     
  20. Lance

    Lance Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    There's a reasonable justification there for keeping Riker around for a while longer. We might assume that somebody at Statfleet took him aside and said, "Y'know, Will, you're a captain now. And we won't blame you if you tell us to blow it out our ass and you want your own command. But we'd really like you to stay as Enterprise XO for a while longer and just make sure Picard can still do the job." And then had him grapple with that for a little bit. I mean, 'First Contact' establishes pretty clearly that Starfleet have still got doubts about Picard and the Borg. It would explain why Riker stayed longer anyway.