Why X-Men: The Last Stand rocked!

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Flying Spaghetti Monster, Mar 27, 2009.

  1. Flying Spaghetti Monster

    Flying Spaghetti Monster Vice Admiral Admiral

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    This movie is so hated by the fans. But before I can go into0 any detail why I disagree, I must first say that the first two X-Men films create a great cinematic world for the X-Men to live in, but as films they have problems. The first film was all introductions, and the action at the end was rather bland, particularly the statue scenes. The second film, the favorite, is really good, and more time is spent on the characters, the plot and the relationships. That said, the film has an underwritten second act. I mean what were Storm and Jean doing, sitting in a plane that whole time? It was a good film.

    The third film is much maligned. Despite the director's attempt to keep the films consistent in their feel, the change in directors is still obvious. However, look at Ebert's review for why I like it. It has a real challenging point, a conflict that stems from the universe these characters inhabit, but also soemthing that's relevant to our time. People say Watchmen was written as a reflection of the political situation of the Cold War, and I think that X-3 deals with many many issues of today through allegory. Bringing the Pheonix into this actually worked.. she's damn powerful, but having her move planets around would not fit in the cinematic universe. Sure the stories alternate fora while in a haphazard way, but a lot of movies do that if they have two plots. At no point does either storey become stagnant or uninteresting. I think what makes this story work is how much meat it has. In some ways it is more relevant and more important than part 2.
    Any film that talks about a political "slippery slope" has got to have some merit.
    Plus, how great is it to have a movie that has an antagonist that you can ompeltely agree with and side with. Magneto has a point, and you can't take that away.
    The Beastwas great. Grrammer made him a complex character.
    I like the subtle charcter work.. it all felt genuine. There are moments hen Magneto's respect for Charles is really apparent.
    I liked the scene between Storm and Logan where it's just the two of them talking about whether he should go after Jean.
    Plus, hell the action at the end, while far from the best action scene ever put on film, is very entertaining. I love the Juggernaut vs. Kitty thing, it was awesome.
     
  2. the Dagman

    the Dagman Commodore Commodore

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    My biggest problem with the film can be summed up in a four word sentence:

    Jean Grey killed Cyclops.

    In the comics, the whole reason Jean became the Phoenix (no matter which story they use to explain it) was because of her love for Scott. Yet here, the first thing she does after transforming into Phoenix was to kill him? And they do it OFF-SCREEN? I could buy it if they had explained that he wasn't actually dead. That she had used her power to heal the brain damage in his head so he could control his optic blasts without his glasses or visor, masked his mind from other telepaths, and sent him flying to the other side of the planet. But I doubt there will be an "X4" to "reveal" such a fate. At least he is appearing in the new Wolverine movie, though how they explain that I do not know.

    Oh well, this series has been flawed since the first frame we saw. I don't expect to see the real X-Men movie until Fox lets the rights lapse and Marvel Studios reboots the franchise and does it right.
     
  3. Flying Spaghetti Monster

    Flying Spaghetti Monster Vice Admiral Admiral

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    well it takes place before the films, that's how we see him
     
  4. captcalhoun

    captcalhoun Admiral Admiral

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    i agree, X-3 is better than most people give it credit for.
     
  5. Yassim

    Yassim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    X3 is almost good. It leaps across the crevasse from suck to awesome, hits the edge of awesome and then falls into the pit of fail.

    The idea that Phoenix was always there and repressed? Interesting. Discussed? not much.

    The idea that mutants might choose to be normal? Interesting. Played out? not much.

    Phoenix does two things that make sense in this movie.
    - Kill Professor X
    - try to shag Wolverine
    What is she doing the rest of the time? Why does she do nothing during the fight, and then join later on? After killing X, what does she do until the very end?

    The Logan/Jean relationship was weak, so having him kill her was very meh. Which was not what that moment needed.

    Angel's first scene was great - but you can't introduce a character with only 8 lines and expect anyone to care.

    Scott's death was, as mentioned, complete ass.

    When Logan spots the "cure" needles, I thought we'd get some kind of conflict around the idea of forcing it on Magneto - is it right to gouge out his eyes if it ends this? but no recognition of that idea at all - even though it was put as central when Hank resigns over the government using the "cure" as a weapon. But he's actually the one to spear Magneto...?

    Too predictable - I knew Worthington would be thrown off a roof before the fight started. Rogue's arc was very interesting, but ended halfway with no discussion or reflection. There were a bunch of great ideas, never developed, and a bunch of characters doing things they told us they wanted to do, but I never believed any of them.

    Great line - "They say they can cure us, but I say, we ARE the cure!"
    A very disappointing miss, all in all.
     
  6. El Chupacabra

    El Chupacabra Commodore Commodore

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    I am not a great fan of X Men or the Singer movies period. However, having seen all three I do think that the Third is the worst by a mile.

    But the good thing is its probably not nearly as bad as Wolverine is likely to be!
     
  7. Icemizer

    Icemizer Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Did we ever see Scotts body??? No body no death rule applies.
     
  8. USS Mariner

    USS Mariner Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    My biggest "Oh for fuck's sake!" moment was really the final battle. That alone killed the movie.

    What kind of brain-dead asshole wrote this? If Magneto is such a fucking genius, why the did he wait until his infantry was wasted to start launching the flaming cars? Even if you don't give a damn about your infantry, that's beyond stupid. I honestly couldn't take him seriously after that point. It's as if a cop takes the bullets out of his gun and starts pistol whipping armed mobsters.

    Aside from that, this was pretty uneven. I loved the "old" uniform Beast was wearing, a great touch and a pretty cool design to boot. The fact that Logan is the only member worth shit is getting annoying at this point. There was almost no "tone" to this thing, and the plot was rushed through with the force of the Juggernaut. ("Bitch!" :rolleyes:) Whoever decided the editing for the last few minutes needs shot, or at least a refresher course on "How not to make your audience laugh hysterically at the last scene." I couldn't believe they cut the ending that way.
     
  9. USS Mariner

    USS Mariner Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Considering that the glasses were basically in one piece...

    ...then again, he was a complete prick the entire series, so I'd rather he stay dead.
     
  10. T'Baio

    T'Baio Admiral Admiral

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    X3 is as terrible as T3.

    God, third movies really tend to suck. :lol:
     
  11. ancient

    ancient Vice Admiral Admiral

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    There are problems with all the movies. X2 was pretty good, but really I didn't give a f*ck about IceWimp or his dysfunctional family. Maybe I would've cared more if he'd ever used his powers for...anything. The movie turned into Wolverine and the X-Kids for a little too long there. I'd rather have gotten more Cyclops.

    So...if Wolverine was cured wouldn't it kill him? Without the insta-heal, wouldn't his metal bone layer really cause some serious problems?
     
  12. TheArsenal

    TheArsenal Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    You're right there. The mishandling of Scott Summers is certainly not a misstep exclusive to X3.
     
  13. T'Baio

    T'Baio Admiral Admiral

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    X3 had a few good ideas, but either didn't have the time to flesh them out or betrayed them. After Mystique is turned homo sapien, Magneto just brushes her off with a "you're no longer one of us?" That scene alone could have been a sub plot, there's so much that could happen or been done with that. Real drama and character work, but instead it's off to the next explosion.

    Xavier admonishing Logan and saying things like "I don't have to answer to you" with anger in his voice was out of character and jarring.

    Some horrible effects work, like when Wolverine appears from behind the head of the Sentinel.

    Wolverine turned into a PUSSY! What's with his satisfied smile at the end, standing on the balcony of the school, basking in the sunshine and seemingly thinking; "Everything is gonna' be okay." Let's not even mention his super telekinetic-energy defying pants at the end.

    And I hate things like Magneto moving the chess piece at the end and Xavier apparently surviving in someone else's body. God, so any real dramatic changes through the film are completely negated? Great...I'll just ignore the whole stupid film then.
     
  14. Flying Spaghetti Monster

    Flying Spaghetti Monster Vice Admiral Admiral

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    First, it is PG-13, so it's all ddramatic licence that he doesn't lose hi pants. I have a bigger problem with the speed he is able to heal. It seems that in the last two films, the bigger the wound, the faster the heal. I didn't have much of a problem with the smile at the end. It is the last film. The ches piece was awesome. What I can't figure out is what happened to Leech. How was storm able to to just hug him, I think she wouldnt want to be human at all.
     
  15. T'Baio

    T'Baio Admiral Admiral

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    See, people just don't seem to understand filmmaking.

    Saying it's PG-13 so he can't lose his pants is ridiculous. A good filmmaker would realize that it's going to look retarded, so he would think of a different way to present the scene.

    And who cares if it's the last film? Does that mean everyone should be doing things all out of character just so we can have a warm feeling come over us as we come to understand that everyone is happy? It's not in character for Wolverine, therefore bad.

    And how is the chess piece awesome? Oh, you know that shocking thing with Magneto we showed you ten minutes ago? Didn't happen. So why should I care, then?
     
  16. Mr Light

    Mr Light Admiral Admiral

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    While there were some poor story choices (Dark Phoenix killing Scott & Xavier, being horrifically underused), I would have to say it had the best action of the trilogy. And it (very briefly kinda) had a Sentinel and the Danger Room! And I really geeked out at having Beast in there. And Juggy.
     
  17. MeanJoePhaser

    MeanJoePhaser Admiral

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    The whole franchise is mediocre. The first movie was merely passable entertainment. The second was better, but not even as memorable as most Batman movies. It's not quite as b-grade as the Fantastic Four movies, though.

    X3 wasn't that bad. It needed more padding and better editing.

    And yeah, the end zingers were kinda dumb.

    "Moira..."

    "Charles!"

    "The machine is still on, Moira." (Clear and Present Danger)

    Then we see Robert Smith and "Friday I'm in Love" starts playing.
     
  18. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Tulin, as long as you like the film, then that's all that really matters.;)
     
  19. Flying Spaghetti Monster

    Flying Spaghetti Monster Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It's Tuln. I didn't love the film, but on other topics, this film is VERY hated. I at least want to give it credit for trying, while still being a fun movie. I wanted a discussion on it that probed both its faults and merits, and there have been some great points made in this thread that have gotten me to think differently.

    I like this line: 'Try growing those back."
     
  20. Ethros

    Ethros Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It could have been a decent film had it been 30 mins longer, and every scene didn't last around 15 seconds

    I would also agree that the Scott Summers thing is odd given the lore, but you really cannot blame the makers of X3 for that. For you average non-comic reading cinema goers who's only knowledge of the X-Men came from the movies, and who make up the vast majoirty of the auduience, NO ONE cared at all about Cyclops after X1 & 2. It was always gonna be Wolverine.
    And plus look at X2, Cyclops is hardly in that either. He gets knocked out and vanishes for about an hour


    btw, T'Baio, which would you say is worse- X3, T3 or AVP?
     

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