Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoilers

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by Bones, Jun 18, 2013.

  1. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

    The word "prove" is being misused quite a bit by the oldTrek folks this evening. It doesn't mean what they think it means. :lol:
     
  2. M'Sharak

    M'Sharak Definitely Herbert. Maybe. Moderator

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    Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

    That's enough. Discuss the topic at hand, but the personal digs need to stop.
     
  3. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

    You're right, my comment was uncalled for and I edited the post accordingly.
     
  4. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

    No, that was not the general idea. At the time of SM3's release, Raimi was discussing a possible Spider-Man 4, while Maguire said he would return if Raimi was the director. The film was not going to be a reboot. When the bottom fell out of that chapter, it was decided that a reboot was in order, thus it proves the point: if a series as successful as the Raimi Spider-Man films was rebooted in favor of another vision, Star Trek can face the same fate.
     
  5. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

    Yes, but that's still not wholly relevant. I was simply illustrating a point via the fact that the movie was seen by a lot of people.

    I don't think anyone is arguing against that. But it won't happen just yet.

    No, Man of Steel is not in the same universe.

    Yeah, because the director and the star both walked.

    These kinds of comments only serve to highlight your bias against the new movies, though, if you effectively say that anyone who disagrees with you on any topic related to those movies must automatically hold a position and opinion diametrically opposed to yours.
     
  6. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

    Define 'bottom' falling out? The movie did $890 million dollars worldwide and $100 million dollars more than Spiderman 2.

    http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=spiderman3.htm

    http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=spiderman2.htm

    Considering the reboot did $140 million less worldwide, I think it's debatable whether rebooting the franchise was the proper course of action.

    http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=spiderman4.htm
     
  7. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

    See post #176.


    Nolan's vision is the face of DC films going forward. From what I understand, films such as the Reynolds Green Lantern are not a part of what is alleged to come (ex. Wonder Woman, Justice League, Aquaman, etc.).

    Oh, please, this thread and forum is riddled with negative comments about anyone not swallowing nuTrek, while trying to tear down TOS.
     
  8. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

    Bottom fell out is another way of saying the Raimi productions reached their end.


    Missing the point, which is the studio can dump a production or production company in favor of a reboot anytime they choose to do so.
     
  9. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

    I never said they couldn't, I said they wouldn't.
     
  10. Devon

    Devon Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

    It's actually CBS that owns Star Trek... just sayin.
     
  11. Keeper

    Keeper Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

    pfft The Spiderman reboot stank, imo. They really lowed the bar with that one.
     
  12. CDR6

    CDR6 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

    1) Just giving credit where credit is due.
    2) Yes, opinion... on this board and else where the jury is still out.
    3) Yes there is still a stigma attached to Star Trek. (See also "Nerds".)

    Hope that clears things up somewhat.
     
  13. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

    I don't get the appeal of Man of Steel at all. I thought it was a bore.
     
  14. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

    Maybe they'll do an international theatrical release and make the US wait twelve months for the direct-to-DVD. :devil: :guffaw:

    The survey in the grading thread seems to show that the jury has already agreed it was a success?
     
  15. Tommunist

    Tommunist Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

    While the friendly discussion (:rommie:) on the artistic merits of big films like Trek, Iron Man, and Man of Steel are debatable, it still comes down to the subjective matter of taste. And I think we've all been guilty at points of using argumentum ad populum when it aligns in favor with our subjective view, and pointing out the fallacy when we don't care for a particular film, tv show, sports team, soda pop, brand of car, political party, etc.

    But, surely, the economics of filmmaking are not as opaque? :lol:
    I think my first expousure to that idea was way back when Art Buchwald won a suit against Paramount over "Coming To America" that would give him a percentage of the film's "net profits" . The film made $288 million by the way.

    But, because of "Hollywood Accounting", Paramount said the film made no profit, and therefore Buchwald would get squat. Courts didn't agree with that assessment, and rather than have the dirty secrets of Hollywood filmmaking in regards to financing, profits, etc, aired for all to see (and open the entire stuidio system up for potential litigation from other parties that profit share) Paramount instead chose to settle with Buchwald, for the "undisclosed amount" that seems so prevelent when big business finds it cheaper to pay "hush money" regardless of the industry.

    Superman Returns made money. Raimi's Spider films made tons, and the new one hasn't done too shabby (more importantly, Sony has to pump out Spidey films at regular intervals just to retain the rights to do so, and rebooting the series seemed the best course at that point, unless they wanted Roger Corman to make one on the cheap just to retain the rights) Man of Steel will also make a princely sum.

    And yes, Virginia, Star Trek Into Darkness will also make money (spoiler alert: it already has!). The studio can go with anybody they want to make the next one, but it's gonna be Bad Robot...

    Now as to why someone who would go to see IM3 and MoS but not Trek, I can only speak from personal experience. Not enough spare time or cash. Try dragging a spouse or a significant other out to the movies 3 times within several weeks! Hire a baby-sitter, etc. For some, money might be tight, or the planning is a hassle. In my case, I just haven't gotten around to Iron Man 3 yet. I only saw the Avengers in theater, the rest I blind bought on Blu-ray and watched them all a week before the Avengers! (I admired Marvel Studio's ballsy plan of a shared movie universe, which seems like a no-brainer in the comic world, but for film making on the big scale, incredibly complex and audacious. I've always been a DC guy, but this won me over, even with some less than stellar movies in "Phase One"). I'll just buy IM3 when it comes out.

    I imagine for some, Trek just fell in that same crack: "I'll get around to it!". Me? I already pre-ordered it, and the disc sales, PPV and rentals will also rack up great sales.

    Now, if this is "Why isn't the movie I like and think is better than the other films not making as much as the other films are?" question, do what I do and propose or dismiss whatever logical fallacy you choose! It helps me keep my cognitive dissonance buried deep inside!! ;)
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2013
  16. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

    That's an exaggeration: people like the new movies and naturally defend them when others make bloated claims about how objectively bad they are. Again, this does not indicate obsession or devotion.

    Yeah, sure enough it doesn't say what you claim it says.

    Can you demonstrate that ? I believe I have made my point with the movies' gross and reviews.
     
  17. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

    Say waht you want, but the second anyone questions or offers opinion on the shortcomings of nuTrek, in comes the slams of TOS, TOS movies, the actors, etc. You are free to search pages one and two for evidence as visible as the screen in front of you.

    Selective perception, since Bill's response was:

    Exactly as stated.
     
  18. Locutus of Bored

    Locutus of Bored Co-Founder of ISIS Moderator

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    Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

    I think you're misreading what's mostly a backlash against people making greatly exaggerated claims about TOS' progressiveness and dubious claims of possessing the definitive interpretation of Roddenberry's "vision" --whilst wearing heavily rose-tinted glasses of nostalgia-- as bashing of TOS and Roddenberry when they're not. Also, there's a backlash against people hypocritically and irrationally criticizing certain aspects of STiD while overlooking those same qualities in series or films of the past that they enjoyed.

    TOS was a fairly progressive series for its day, but it still had many of the negative trappings of 60s TV. But that's understandable, and the show can still be appreciated for the efforts it made at improving things and for the entertainment value it still provides.

    And every time some numpty starts babbling on about knowing the ONE TRUE interpretation of Goddenberry's vision like some half-assed preacher angrily waving his personally revised copy of the Bible with passages crossed out and replaced by handwritten notes in the margins, I just tune them out. Roddenberry was a good storyteller with some progressive ideas, and I'm thankful to him for creating Star Trek, but he didn't make the original series alone, he also had some pretty negative behaviors and off the wall ideas, was perfectly willing to drastically alter "canon" if it suited his needs; which is fine but contrary to the fanon notion that he was some sort of guardian of an inviolable canon, and his "vision" often varied wildly from one season/movie or iteration of Trek to the next.

    So, what you're seeing is not so much an unfair criticism of TOS and Roddenberry, it's a criticism of the hyperbolic and unrealistic idealized image of them some fans have in their heads.
     
  19. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

    Meh, the TOS forum is as bad - worse, really - where nuTrek is concerned.

    That seems to be rather why dedicated fan forums for particular subjects are as popular as they are here on TrekBBS and across the Internet in general.

    Go ahead, drop by a Mustang forum and talk up Camaros - or vice versa :lol:
     
  20. Ovation

    Ovation Vice Admiral Admiral

    Re: Why would someone avoid STID but see Iron Man & Man Of Steel? spoi

    Well that'd be just silly. Everyone knows MOPAR rules!!! :lol: