Why was Sisko assigned to DS9?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by Tomalak, Aug 24, 2012.

  1. Spock/Uhura Fan

    Spock/Uhura Fan Captain Captain

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    Jesus? Sisko didn't die for anybody's sins.

    I disagree with a seasoned Captain or Admiral being needed for the job. They were sent to provide a buffer between the Bajorans and Cardassians and see if the Bajorans would join the Federation. You don't need a seasoned Captain or Admiral for that, especially when they place was practically dead with people still abandoning it.

    I could just imagine an Admiral’s response to being assigned there: “What? And where is that again? Okay, and you want me to run along to a nearly abandoned space station with a security detail to see if a conquered and struggling people would want to join a large Federation of planets that could protect them while they rebuild. That doesn’t seem like much of a challenge. Are you sure you don’t have a fleet for me to run or something?”
     
  2. Use of Time

    Use of Time Commodore Commodore

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    Well it was a lot more than just running a station. If it was just the station then I could see a CDR doing that. There was also a permanent diplomatic responsibility with a very fragile race that they were trying to coax into the Federation while at the same time keeping the Cardassians at bay. I don't think we can look at that as some miniscule assignment. Also sending a CDR shows Bajor just how important you consider them.
     
  3. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    So in all probability that was the message Starfleet wanted to send...

    Picard of course had a different agenda there, as he had from "Ensign Ro" on developed something of a guilt complex or whatever. But that would be just his personal position, something he would whisper in Sisko's ear in an intimate situation well after Sisko had received his official orders from Starfleet.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  4. Squiggy

    Squiggy FrozenToad Admiral

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    This is what wikipedia says a metaphor is:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphor
     
  5. Use of Time

    Use of Time Commodore Commodore

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    1st sentence...What exactly would that message be?

    As for the rest, I have no idea what you are talking about with Picard and Sisko whispering things to each other.:confused:
     
  6. Spock/Uhura Fan

    Spock/Uhura Fan Captain Captain

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    And that's why an Emissary was needed. You seem to be overlooking the whole "the stars were in alignment" aspect of it. Still, even with the point you are making, a very seasoned Commander (as Sisko was) could handle that assignment. I suppose a seasoned Captain could too, but that's where the "nobody wanted the post" comes in. If you don't want to do something, you find a way to pass it along to someone who can't get out of it. But, an Admiral? No.

    If we were dealing with more than 2 civilizations at odds with each other, and a choice that probably seemed obvious to Starfleet if the Bajorans wanted to be able to build (but of course they could understand if the Bajorans didn't want to feel "ruled" again), then maybe someone at Admiral level would have warranted the post.

    Yes, and my point was that it is a bad metaphor. You may want to go with a simile next time, especially if you want to liken Sisko to Jesus, which if that's what you were trying to do, then I could understand Sisko being "Christ-like" in some ways.
     
  7. Captaindemotion

    Captaindemotion Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^You on the one hand use the 'stars in alignment' symbolism, then in the next suggest that Sisko/Christ is a bad metaphor? Don't you recall the Three Wise Men or Little Star of Bethlehem stories?
     
  8. Ln X

    Ln X Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Why was Sisko assigned to DS9?

    Simple; it was the Prophet's will.

    Plus the Prophet's move in mysterious ways...
     
  9. Use of Time

    Use of Time Commodore Commodore

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    Oh, I forgot to factor in the "stars in alignment" thing. My bad.:rolleyes:

    So a CAPT or Admiral would be too much because...you say so?
    Ok fine, how about an Ambassador then? That would have made a fine addition to the main cast.
     
  10. Spock/Uhura Fan

    Spock/Uhura Fan Captain Captain

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    Yes, I do recall them. There are many things about Sisko's story that are like that of Christ, but it is not the same story. He didn't die to save anyone from their sins, he didn't recruit disciples and swear off everything else so he could go to and fro preaching the gospel, he wasn't born of a virgin who was impregnated by the Prophets... There are lots of things that are similar, but not the same.
     
  11. Spock/Uhura Fan

    Spock/Uhura Fan Captain Captain

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  12. Captaindemotion

    Captaindemotion Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I would have thought it clear that Squiggy simply meant that Sisko was Christ-like, as oppose to exactly like Christ. The most interesting of stories don't simply recreate real-life or pre-existing characters, but borrow aspects from their histories.
     
  13. Use of Time

    Use of Time Commodore Commodore

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    Last edited: Aug 27, 2012
  14. Spock/Uhura Fan

    Spock/Uhura Fan Captain Captain

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    And that's why I told him it might be good to use a simile next time.

    Agreed.



    Yes, and the question of the thread was "why" was he assigned. That's where destiny comes in. Their Emissary was "sent" to them. The right circumstances just happened to come into play to allow that to happen. That's kind of how fate and destiny work. ;)

    Not if joining looked to be a no-brainer by the new planet in question, and not if the people of that planet had very little (if any) political clout. All they needed to do was to keep the Cardassians in line (that's what the security force was for) and present their offer of membership (a seasoned Commander could do this).

    And unfortunately, beggars can't be choosy. I don't think that the Federation thought of the Bajorans as beggars, but aside from some natural resources that could be traded (and membership wasn't needed for trade), there's nothing that they were in a real position to bring to the table. Offering them membership was also offering them help and protection. That doesn't seem rational to you? If it doesn't, then what great benefit do you think the Bajorans could offer the Federation BEFORE the wormhole opened up?


    You seem to be choosing not to read any of my other posts. That's okay; see above please.
     
  15. Use of Time

    Use of Time Commodore Commodore

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    The summary of your argument is essentially this.

    The Bajorans don't offer a lot and wow they sure are a needy bunch. "Hey Sisko, can you go over there and just admit them into the Federation. You got this man."

    Do you think the Federation is the kind of organization that only admits members into the Federation based off of their ability to add to their might? Every single Federation member isn't some military juggernaut adding to the military machine. The Bajorans were a deeply spiritual, artistic and unfortunately war torn people.

    If it was such a no brainer then why did it take Sisko 7 years to get it done. Maybe they should have sent an Admiral;) Let's be clear, the Bajorans joining the Federation was never a "no brainer" they reacted very strongly to Starfleet's presence in their rebuilding efforts at first. They went through a hell of a lot before the ink hit the paper.

    I actually do think the Bajorans had a lot to offer. They offered the Fed's the ability to maintain an outpost close to Cardassian space and they also have a lot of first hand intelligence regarding an enemy that the Federation themselves just finished fighting. Imagine if the Fed's blew off the request to help the Bajoran's because they felt they didn't bring anything to the table. When that wormhole appeared, who would become the 'beggers' then.
     
  16. Spock/Uhura Fan

    Spock/Uhura Fan Captain Captain

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    I could sum up your argument, but I try not to make a habit of telling people what they are saying. And apparently, they did think he had it. They sent him, didn't they?

    Anyway, my main argument was that it was his destiny to be there and to be the Emissary of the Bajoran people. His rank wasn't as much of an issue as sending him was. Again, UoT, it was his destiny, and theirs too.

    You're jumping to conclusions. No, I don't think that of the Federation, but I also do think that it is taken into consideration, as all things would be. I'm sure Cardassia had a lot of art and things like that, and they weren't offered membership, IIRC.

    I think the Federation saw what the Bajorans had been through, and the fact that after such a difficult time for 50 years they were trying to rebuild and purge Cardassian influences to keep to their identities and they saw it as a worthy and worthwhile cause. They wanted to not only help them with that, but to also offer them friendship, through membership.

    You do remember that the wormhole opened up when their Emissary showed up, their Kai was lost to them and the political campaigning for a new Kai began, the loss of their trusted and beloved Kai also shook their newly founded government because she was kind of the glue that held things together, Sisko had just become the "chosen one" of a group of people he had just met in addition to the Commander of a station he had just been assigned to, oh and the WORMHOLE opened up, which changed things. And consequently, the wormhole only opened when their "chosen one" showed up. ;)

    Franky, "an Admiral" couldn't have done the job that Sisko did because the Prophets chose him, and only him, for the job.

    (And as a side note, it didn't "take 7 years." They were going to join, and their Emissary told them not to at one point.)

    I don't know why you place such a great need on this generic "Admiral," to be honest.

    Please see above. Part of the reason why they reacted strongly was because of political factions that were at odds, telling them this and that. No "Admiral" was going to do a better job (or even as good) at negotiating and reasoning with them than their Emissary was doing.

    You want me to imagine something that didn't happen. I'm not going to do that because it's pointless. The Federation saw the Bajorans as a worthwhile people, otherwise they wouldn't have sent help and an offer in the first place.

    You fail to realize that the wormhole didn't open up until the Prophets were ready for it to open, and they weren't ready until their chosen "Emissary" showed up.
     
  17. Use of Time

    Use of Time Commodore Commodore

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    It's amusing that you call it a "no brainer" and then list political and religous turmoil as reasons that it took longer to admit them. Bajor's government was a mess long before Opaka died. Nothing "no brainer" about it. Hell, the first time we see Kira she is screaming at some member of their provisional government. She didn't seem very hopeful.

    For the record I could care less about this mythical "Admiral" it's just that you dismissed it so flippantly without much rationale. I'm just discussing the fact that I considered the magnitude of that responsibility and respect for the Bajoran people to warrant the appearance of a high ranking official showing that the Federation is taking their situation seriously. I am very familiar with the whole Emissary concept but if you are telling me that the prophets reach extends to Earth and they somehow are responsible for Starfleet choosing him then I respectfully disagree. We have only seen them operate inside the wormhole or through their orbs. It's quite possible that when Sisko arrived the Prophets simply said "he'll do."

    The reason we didn't invite the Carassians that were "artsy" into the Federation is pretty simple, we just finished fighting them in a war and they would be involved in another one with us shortly.

    Your last comment about discussing something that didn't happen because it would be pointless is somewhat ironic to someone posting on this board. In short, it's kind of what we do here.

    Lastly, I don't know why you feel the need to preface every comment to me with some condescending comment like "you do realize that" or "you did see the series didn't you" or "you do remember that." I don't like to be shit on so stop it will ya.
     
  18. Spock/Uhura Fan

    Spock/Uhura Fan Captain Captain

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    Again, we're talking about "why" he was sent. That "turmoil" didn't happen until after he had already been assigned there. He was not replaced by a Captain/Admiral by that time because he was their Emissary, and no one else would do.


    I said an Admiral or seasoned Captain wasn't required. If you think that was "flippant," then okay, but it doesn't change my opinion. Consequently, I'm not trying to change yours. It seems like it's "agree to disagree" time. I don't think that sending a seasoned Commander with a security detail to help them means that the Federation was not "taking their situation seriously." Apparently you do, so I'll agree to disagree.

    By saying that there was no rationale (or that the rationale that I provided was somehow faulty) for sending a seasoned Commander, you seem to be pointing to a conclusion of the Federation being irrational in sending Sisko. Again, I'll agree to disagree.

    You say you don't care about this "mythical Admiral," all the while saying that a "high ranking official" was necessary. This makes me wonder if you agree with yourself.


    Um, that's actually in the show, though. Their "reach" extended to Sisko's mother. In the series, we mainly only saw them in the wormhole, or when the orbs were opened, but that doesn't mean that's where they only resided. Time wasn't linear for them, so maybe locations weren't set in stone either.

    See above about their location, and about "he'll do." He was chosen long before he showed up and long before Starfleet sent him.

    They weren't in a war with them at the time, so it's possible they could have tried to "make friends" with them. Also, unless the Federation held a crystal ball, they couldn't know they'd be at war with them again.

    Well, I haven't been here as long as you, so I can't say what's normal and what's not, but I thought we mainly talked about what did happen. That's what the majority of this board seems to be dedicated to, at least from my view.

    I didn’t know why you felt the need to start off like that with me, but I can respond in kind. If I have offended you, I will apologize though. There’s no need for us to be rude to one another, especially if it bothers you.

    I'm honestly ready to let this subject go anyway. You're not changing my mind, and it was never my intention to make you change yours. Peace? :)
     
  19. Use of Time

    Use of Time Commodore Commodore

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    The Bajoran government was very much in turmoil before he got there. They were a "provisional" government at the time and a dysfunctional one.

    I'm not disagreeing with myself either when I say Admiral or high ranking official. (this could be an ambassador) These are two separate things.

    I didn't recall the episode with Sisko's mother. Again, you could have just said "that was in this episode" instead of prefacing it with the condescending "um." I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong I just don't understand the need to speak to me like I am a child.

    About the Cardassians, you had specifically asked why the Federation didn't invite them. Just because they weren't at war with them didn't mean that the Cardassians were open to actually joining the Federation. It just meant that the military actions were done.

    Yeah, I'm all set here but you strike me as a need to have the last word kind of person. This would have been a lot more fun if you could kill the snark.
     
  20. Spock/Uhura Fan

    Spock/Uhura Fan Captain Captain

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    And yet, they were functioning well enough to negotiate with a "high ranking official," from what you've said.

    They are (or can be two separate things), so I stand corrected.

    I'm not sure that an Ambassador alone would have worked. They needed someone that wasn't just able to function from a place of diplomacy. It seemed like someone in a military command position was necessary, especially since military were sent to help secure the station.

    I wasn't being condescending with the "Um." That's just the thought that I had. I didn't know saying "Um," means I think you're a child or that I'm dealing with you in such a way. A lot of people say "Um," a lot. It's just a placeholder in speech, as is "like," or "Ah."

    Yes, but how could they really know that the Cardassians weren't interested if they didn't try? What ever happened to "fight and make-up?" The Federation is supposed to be enlightened enough to at least try to do that. My point was that the Cardassians weren't given an invitation because the Federation didn't think them worthy, and not because they didn't have artistic worth, etc.

    You seem to be gearing for a fight. I'm not interested. I said I apologized if I offended you, and it would be nice if you could do the same. Things would have went a lot better if you had addressed me respectfully at the go. You first replied to me (negatively), and not the other way around.

    If you'd like the last word, then you can have it. I'm done. :)