Why was Kes written off the show?

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by Kooz, Feb 23, 2012.

  1. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2001
    Location:
    Lynx Empire
    I agree. Even if I actually like "Mosaic" and the background stories in "Pathways", I dislike Taylor's way to soothe over all problems and conflicts which were established in the series. In the series it was stated that Chakotay wasn't on good terms with his father Kolopak when Kolopak died. Taylor sooths it over by making them made up and solve their problems before Kolopak died.

    The same with Torres. In "Pathways", Torres's rebellious attitude is explained by her longing for her Starfleet Officer father!

    I also find Janeway a bit wimpy here and there in the background story in "Mosaic". There must have been a significant change in Janeway between the Academy and Voyager.

    And we get no explanation at all to why Tom Paris had such a bad relationship to his father. It's all like "if we are a good, happy family who join hands and sing a little song, then everything will be fine". Life isn't always that easy.

    Not to mention that the way Jennifer Lien was dumped wasn't particularily nice either.
     
  2. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    Second best. Garret had a fricking immunity idol.

    If Garret had any dignity, he would have told them to go &^%$ themselves and just left.

    This is how my ears would have heard Brannon explaining how close Kim got to the breadline to Wang.

    "Hello garret, we want to fire you, we really think you suck and you deserve to live in a gutter, if we could make sure you never work in this town again we would, and we probably will after the series finishes, but the stupid assholes in marketing tell us that we can't fire you. I mean, I only want to fire you, Rick over there wants to break all your fingers... but anyhooo, since we can't tie you up in a sack and drown you for being tiresome and incompetent, and where the hell are the teen magazine covers calling you a heart throb, you are useless... but since we're giving you a pass, which in no known universe you deserve, you are so fucking lucky. Some times I see you, and I gun my engine a little, just imagining the sound of my wheels running over your half dead body powdering your bones... But fortunately since we got all this hate and venom and disgust to expel on someone, anyone really, and you're not available, you jammy bastard, I'm going to go over to Jennifer's trailer an give her exactly what you deserve, and exactly what I so want to give you, a swift death to all your hopes and dreams. When you see her crying Garret, and you will see her crying, just know full and well that I didn't do that, you did, she's an innocent little blonde thing and with in a year Jennifer is going to be a street walker and you're to blame... You can save her from the bum fights, it's in your power Garret. I can't fire you, but you can quit. Quit for me Garret. Quit for her. Quit and save Jennifer. She's not strong like you, only you can stop her life turning into a colossal mound of turds, only you can save her tears and deep psychological and abandonment issues... Or, you can just be an asshole and watch her get get shit canned in the face. Admit it, you have no human feelings inside you whatsoever? You're a monster Garret Wang! A monster! I despise you and the hole in your soul where your empathy should be!"

    (Um. Actors don't have dignity. They have Agents.)
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2012
  3. NightOwl

    NightOwl Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2011
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    Interesting mental image... and quite amusing too. Thanks Guy ;)
     
  4. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2003
    Location:
    The Digital Garden
    Two stories in two books and 2 stories a year out of 28 stories a season doesn't equate into 7 years worth of material . Even while Kes wa on the show by 3rd season they weren't writing much more than her saying "yes, doctor." I think it shows Jeri Taylor wasn't lying. What reason would she have to lie for if she's admitting it was their own lack of success.

    Besides, everyone wants to blame Rick Berman or Jeri Taylor.
    Did anyone bother to ask what Jen Lien wanted? Did anybody consider she didn't want to stay doing Trek. That she didn't like the job. She has said since the start that the choice to leave was mutual.
    As Guy has correctly pointed out, actors have agents.

    Ratings was a small part of what modern Trek is all about. Voyager held enough in the ratings to last but Seven of Nine gave Paramount something else they wanted too, a strong boost in merchandising. Seven's image made them LOTS of money!
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2012
  5. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    The crying I spake of is reported to have been real.

    What ever she said later on, Jennifer started crying while they fired her and didn't stop till some time after.

    I doubt that they were tears of joy.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2012
  6. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2003
    Location:
    The Digital Garden
    Lots of people cry at the idea of leaving a job with people they enjoy working with. People cry moving out of shitty apt. just because for a while it was considered home. That's being human. That doesn't mean it wasn't a mutual choice.
     
  7. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    No! She was weeping in humiliation and grief!!
     
  8. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    Next, y'all be telling me that it was just a lengthy teargasm.
     
  9. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2003
    Location:
    The Digital Garden
    She left her job doing voice over work on the Men in Black cartoon at the same time. I think IMO it still holds water to what Lien herself said about not being interested in the field of acting anymore.

    Jeri Taylor said they didn't want to continue with the character anymore. Why waste Jen Lien's time and talent in a part they admitted they were going to ignore? They did her a favor by letting her go so she could took for a more lucrative career. Wasn't one Beltran enough?
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2012
  10. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    I would have paid to see his tears.
     
  11. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    52 thousandish dollars a year isn't acting.

    That's doing what ever you have to do to maintain being still paid 52 thousandish dollars next year.

    Acting is an artform, television is a massproducing conveyor belt

    The Guy who played Reed in Enterprise was gob smacked by the cancellation because he'd just started his mortgage on a HUGE house on condition of Enterprise being around for at least another four years...
     
  12. You_Will_Fail

    You_Will_Fail Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2010
    Location:
    Trill, Federation World and Proud
    I highly doubt Dominic Keating was under the impression that Enterprise was going to run for another 4 years, he'd have to be completely clueless...
     
  13. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    Why would you buy a HUGE house on 52 thousand dollars a year?
     
  14. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    By year three, sure.

    But if Dom had signed the paperwork in season 2 or season one, it's an understandable error.

    especially if he was one of those regular ordinary people that didn't know the difference between star wars and Star Trek, and just said "how long is this going to last?' and they told him that TNG, DS9 and voyager all lasted 7 years and a series of movies wasn't probably out of the question after year 7... After all, why else would they make him sign a seven year contract, which is what they al did I've always been told.
     
  15. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    because i dropped a zero.

    20ish grand an episode x 26 episodes is half a million dollars.

    What a brain fart.

    I need more carrots in my diet.
     
  16. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    Well for that salary I fail to see why anyone had a problem showing up and mouthing technobabble.
     
  17. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    Geneviève Bujold ran screaming from the set after three days.

    Through a wall loony tunes style does not seem inconceivable.

    And she was probably paid considerably more than Jennifer, given that she was the series lead.

    Have you ever seen the footage of Eric Stoltz as Marty McFly?

    I never really added it up before but that makes Kate the most junior cast member. the voyager cast was together bonding learning to be one of those stage families, and then out of no where in walks this punk kid "Mulgrew' thinking that she's in charge pushing her weight around and taking the good parking spot.

    With that being even a fraction of the truth, Kate could have been a lot nicer to jeri when she showed up.
     
  18. You_Will_Fail

    You_Will_Fail Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2010
    Location:
    Trill, Federation World and Proud
    She probably thought the money wasn't worth the ridiculously long hours and everyone on the set looking at her and thinking "wtf this woman is useless".
    Although even Bujold couldn't have done any worse than Mulgrew in "Counterpoint" *shudders*
     
  19. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    You don't like Counterpoint?

    :eek:
     
  20. BrownShatner

    BrownShatner Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2009
    Seems to me the mistake was believing Voyager was doing fine and only needed to replace one boring character with sexy Seven of Nine. In reality, half the cast had no personality and just stood around reading computer displays while the EMH character carried the show.

    They should have taken the opportunity to do a more major overhaul of the show, getting rid of Kes, Kim, Chakotay, and perhaps Tuvok; and replaced them with characters with some interesting dramatic tension.