Why was Kes written off the show?

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by Kooz, Feb 23, 2012.

  1. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I believe my profile has something to say about that :guffaw:
     
  2. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    What you and some other posters seem to forget is that Seven Of Nine was deliberately marketed in a very different way from how Kes was marketed. When it comes to Kes, she was one of the main cast but not featuring in any way and when it comes to marketing, you should compare the marketing of Kes with the marketing of Tuvok, Paris, Torres, The Doctor, Neelix, Kim and maybe Chakotay. How many Doctor items are there to find? And how many times did we see The Doctor on any book cover?

    When Seven arrived, those in charge had decided that she was the new star of the show, the new main character. That, plus the "sex sells" factor was the reason for all Seven items that started to show up on the market, not to mention all those posters and articles about her in all the Trek magazines which were going at the same time.

    When it comes to my suggestion about all that marketing money being used to have ten main characters, well in another post it was stated that Paramount earned lots of $$$ on the Seven Of Nine stuff so maybe all that $$$ could have been used to keep ten main characters.
     
  3. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    So, exactly how often are you a teacake, and how often are you a toasted teacake?
     
  4. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    But.. we did get THIS.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    When I'm hot, I'm hot.
     
  6. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    You're aware that these are all separate and unrelated departments?

    usually at war with another.

    Berman looked better to his bosses if all these other bastards trying to make money off "the brand" and off his work FAILED.

    Well, failed relativey compared to his successes.

    the guy who was in charge of the toys wanted to destroy the guy in charge of the games who wanted to kill the guy in charge of the print media who wanted to annihilate the frakk in charge of the apparrel who all wanted to destroy Berman who was in charge of broadcast media.

    Evolution comes through conflict.
     
  7. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    That's kinda the point. Kes was too mousey and plain to be promoted as the show's T&A, jiggly poster-girl.

    He did get a 4.5" figure and a 9" figure. And a Hallmark ornament. And a very popular cameo in "First Contact". And a holographic trading card.

    Robert Picardo actually wrote "The Hologram's Handbook" for Pocket Books:
    http://www.amazon.com/Holograms-Handbook-Star-Trek-Voyager/dp/0743437918

    No, it was decided before she arrived.

    Exactly. The Kes character did not have that merchandising potential. Her character (and the actress) were not designed that way.

    You still don't understand. Monies earned by a studio are channelled through to shareholders as profits, not in keeping an overblown cast of a TV show together.

    With ten characters, everybody gets even less lines per script. No matter how much you loved Kes, complaining how unfair it was doesn't change the fact that the show's producers were ordered to shake up the status quo in an effort to attract more interest in the show. And they did. And sales of Seven merchandise was good - because it kept getting produced. There were a lot of Seven items because the stores couldn't keep enough of them on the shelves. Without Seven and her ample assets, VOY may have lost many more viewers than they already had.
     
  8. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I spent 5 minutes googling for "seven of Nine merchandise' and all I found was a coffee mug, a bust and a few posters from the original promotional shots from before she actually started.

    Although, I did see a TOS edition of UNO that looks wicked.

    These people had no idea how to capitalize on Jeri wearing a sock.
     
  9. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    So what the show needed was a "T&A, jiggly poster-girl". :eek:
    Oh, and I thougt it was a SF series about exploring space. Not to mention that the strength of Star Trek always has been the stories and good characters, something Voyager already had.

    "Mousey and plain" doesn't fit the description of Kes but I agree that the character wasn't supposed to be the featured character. That role was designed to Kathryn Janeway.

    As for "less lines per script" with ten character and "overblown cast", well someone must have forgotten to tell that to those in charge of DS9.

    And if everything was about profit, why did they bother to keep all the main character. They could have dumped all of them except Seven, then it would have been more money to the great shareholders.

    Honestly, showbiz is a stinking business. I know. :(

    And I don't think that Voyager would have lost more viewers without any changes, not if those in charge had concentrated on their main job, to come up with good stories for the characters they had.
     
  10. JanewayRulz!

    JanewayRulz! Vice Admiral Admiral

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  11. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'm "very wrong?" You're point isn't a refutation of mine. I wasn't questioning the amount or variety of 7 of 9 merchandise, I was questioning the SALES numbers. So unless you have figures that show that there was a huge jump in AMOUNT of 7 of 9 action figures and other merchandise I'll retain my skepticism.

    I think the percentage of the fanbase that are hard-core collectors isn't a big one(For example, Star Trek XI was a huge box-office hit but the action figure line didn't do well).

    So again I inquire: any figures on 7 of 9 merchandise sales? We've already seen that the ratings impact was negligible, I'm guessing that we see the same thing here.
     
  12. You_Will_Fail

    You_Will_Fail Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Well I don't really care about the merchandising issue. The fact is Seven of Nine was a great character and one of Voyager's only real success stories. I wouldn't say she was the main reason for the quality improvement post season 3 however since the writers did seem to be getting their act together at the end of season 3.
     
  13. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I don't think Seven was a bad character. I just don't think it was necessary to drop Kes for her, I don't think Voyager should have become the "Seven of Nine show" it often did in later seasons, and I think Seven should have worn a real uniform or at least something less ridiculous.
     
  14. doubleohfive

    doubleohfive Fleet Admiral

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    Note my previous post. I said "fundamental lack of understanding about how television series budgeting operates."

    That's far and away a completely different ballgame than the music business. In short - there's more to consider when reviewing the point you raised (and to which I was replying) when mapping out the budget for how many regular cast members you'll have. Raking it in in merchandising does not necessarily imply that even if there is enough cash to go around, it will absolutely be reallocated toward paying an actress her salary to stick around. Television is a huge, monstrous machine with a thousand mouths to feed, not just Jennifer Lien's.
     
  15. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Then you must be the only Trek fan living under a rock not to know that Playmates Trek action figure line was one of the most highly collectable toy lines to date as well as WIZARD: Toy Fair magazine, the second top rated toy collectable magazine among collectors carried an exclusive Seven of Nine action figure that sold out. Seven of Nine's success of being such a highly collectable item was featured in such shows as the Simpsons, Dilbert, Reaper and even Simon Pegg's UK series Spaced. How do you figure the collector market is small when a major majority of Trek fans own some form of Trek merchandise? You already acknowledged she was a pop icon, so how can she be one and not have well selling product? How are all these sources in the media aware of this and you being a Trek fan, aren't?
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2012
  16. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Adult toy collectors are mostly deranged perverts, and the toys the industry generates for these perverts are fr the most part debased... I used to sell this shit for a living in a comic book store.

    They got troubles.

    Children's toys from children's toy stores are sweet and innocent and this market should be about ten thousand times larger at least, from what you're going to find in a specialty shop...

    I remember seeing Star Trek toys in the toys shops back int he 80s for about 5 minutes.

    Compared to GI Joe and Transformers, who just won't die, Star Trek is a drop int he bucket.
     
  17. You_Will_Fail

    You_Will_Fail Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I don't remember seeing a Seven of Nine figurine in the Simpsons, just someone dressed up as her
    Edit- also, what exactly is this argument about now?
     
  18. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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  19. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    Of course Playmates (and Pocket Books) don't release such figures. We can only judge by the fact that Playmates made sure there was a Seven of Nine figure in almost every wave after she joined the cast of VOY. The Seven of Nine figure exclusives in the toy mags caused those issues to sell out.

    Because most fans said they were poorly made.

    If the sales were poor, they'd have stopped making Sevens after the first one.

    Keep in mind that Cafe Press stuff is unlicensed.

    Yes, the packaged figure is in the episode with Xena vs Comic Shop Guy.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2012
  20. You_Will_Fail

    You_Will_Fail Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Ok so Seven merchandise was popular among collectors...what's the point being made here, why is this thread still going..?