why so many unfavourable comments about Bareil?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by Dal Rassak, Feb 19, 2013.

  1. Dal Rassak

    Dal Rassak Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I keep reading comments where people say he's just boring and pointless.
    I don't get that. Yes, he's a quiet personality, that doesn't mean he hasn't got one!

    I thought Philip Anglim did quite a lot with the role, portraying him with both strength of character and a subtle quirk of mischief. I found him a good counterpart to Winn in that his belief was more sincere while lacking her dogmatic fanaticism. And I like the unruffled way he let all of Winn's attempts to rile him simply roll off his back.
    With his way of resting in himself he'd also have made the perfect match for unstable firecracker Kira - they'd have complemented one another.

    I know why it played well for dramatic reasons but I for one was sorry to see the character die.
     
  2. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    He was bland and pointless. My least favourite character in the whole of DS9 along with Ishka and Zek. Every time he comes on-screen I unintentionally let out a sigh.
     
  3. Sigokat

    Sigokat Commander Red Shirt

    I always thought he was a tad creepy as well.
     
  4. dub

    dub Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I thought he was okay, but mainly for me his character's interaction with Kira helped develop Odo and his interest in Kira. His character also served to highlight Winn's desire for power.
     
  5. Dover

    Dover Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    I think it's both: he was boring and bland, but that's exactly what made him an interesting match for Kira. I think he was a really dull character to watch on a TV show, but in the "reality" of their lives, would probably have been the most suitable long-term relationship of the men she was involved with, had he lived. It just makes for boring TV.

    I've always suspected that the Bajoran men are boring on purpose, like it's a cultural thing. The women are all fiery and aggressive, and the men are all quiet and reserved. It seems pretty consistent. Of course Bareil has the whole monk thing going on which magnifies it, and his utter calm makes his romantic interest in Kira read as creepy.
     
  6. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Bareil's role in the story was important and vital, but he never came off as personally interesting. He never really convinced you he was the maverick secularist he was written as.
     
  7. BruntFCA

    BruntFCA Commander Red Shirt

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    He definitely served his purpose but he wasn't a particularly strong character IMO.
     
  8. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Admiral Premium Member

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    I just watched Bariel's best episodes, In the Hands of the Prophets and the Circle Trilogy. I liked the character just fine and looking forward to revisiting The Collaborator, which I think is an underrated episode.
     
  9. heavy lids

    heavy lids Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Bareil was such a creep. Not in like a Jerry Sandusky way, but just the way he talked made me feel really uncomfortable.
     
  10. heavy lids

    heavy lids Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Very true.
     
  11. Shanndee

    Shanndee Commodore Commodore

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    Well said. A friend of mine was trying to get me to explain why I didn't really like the character and you hit the nail on the head for me. Bareil "in person" was nowhere near the character discussed in conversation.
     
  12. Dover

    Dover Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    I've been thinking more about this, and I think I've figured it out (at least for why he's creepy to me).

    I think it's because when he and Kira first start to spend time together, it's framed as a spiritual retreat, with him as her priest, essentially. So she agrees to go to his monastery and explore the gardens and stuff, and suddenly he's coming onto her, but in a sort of subdued way, where his tone suggests he's up to something, but his words pretend like he's still acting as her religious advisor, and that's just creepy and manipulative.

    And what makes it more awkward is that it's not really clear at first if she's into it. She's obviously intrigued, but also confused and uncomfortable. I understand that he probably already had the naked orb vision before he came to the station, and realized it was the will of the prophets that they get together, but to anyone not privy to the prophets' intentions, he's just a creepy priest using his position of trust to get in a woman's pants.

    I love when they meet Winn at the monastery and he says, "Major Kira is here to explore her pagh," and Winn's face is like, "Oh, is that what the kids are calling it these days?"

    Anyway, I don't have a problem with their later relationship, but for the first couple episodes, it feels like he has all the power and is taking advantage of her a bit.
     
  13. Dal Rassak

    Dal Rassak Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I really don't get where everyone takes the "creepy" bit from. I always found him thoroughly likeable.
    About the "coming on to her", he actually tells her expressly afterwards that he had had a vision that showed her as part of his future. He must have hoped she'd be shown the same thing when he led her to view the Orb.
    I reckon he was starting to fall in love with her by then so couldn't manage to be completely neutral and detached, but tried not to make an obvious pass at her until she'd worked out what she wanted. I always read his behaviour as just that, trying to give space to someone you're attracted to, and didn't see anything creepy about it.
     
  14. DS9forever

    DS9forever Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Somebody must have liked Bareil; the DS9 writers kept getting mail from kooks wanting him to brought back after he died!
     
  15. WesleysDisciple

    WesleysDisciple Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    uhmmmn any of the people thinking bajoran men are all Bland... remember Tahna Loess from the 2nd episode.

    hes a VERY intense charachter.
     
  16. Enterprise is Great

    Enterprise is Great Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I didn't see him as creepy at all but sort of likable. But bland and boring...oh, yeah he was that for sure. I'm not sure if it was the writing or the actor but I saw him in an episode of "Millennium" and he was pretty bland and boring there as well.
     
  17. HaventGotALife

    HaventGotALife Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I didn't like his relationship with Kira. Call it my Catholic upbringing, but I don't expect a monk to be dating. I liked him more as Kai then I ever liked Opaka or Winn. And that he's not a crazy religious nut really was appealing upon re-watching DS9 knowing what happens.
     
  18. Dover

    Dover Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Yeah, I was raised Catholic as well. I don't mind clergy not being celibate (it's probably a better idea), but the whole "you're going through a tough time emotionally, why don't you come to my monastery and relax for a while" turning into him flirting with her, culminating in "look into this orb at visions of us naked together"...

    I know he was just following the will of the prophets, but imagine a priest today inviting a troubled young woman to visit his church and then hitting on her and showing her photoshopped pictures of them naked together, and saying "it's God's will that you sleep with me." The fact that we know the prophets exist makes it OK, but it can be OK and creepy at the same time.
     
  19. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think the power dynamic of the situation you describe is different from the power dynamic between Kira and Bareil. In the case of the priest telling the young naive woman 'God said we have to sleep together', the priest has all the power and is abusing that power.

    Between Kira and Bareil, Kira always had the power in the relationship. She's not a naive young woman. She is 'troubled' but not in a way that makes her vulnerable. Bareil had no power over Kira to abuse.

    Also given the D'jara system where people take up the vocations of their parents, it makes sense within the Bajoran religion for priests to be able to get married.