Why no Sela in 'Nemesis'?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by dswynne1, May 17, 2014.

  1. dswynne1

    dswynne1 Commander Red Shirt

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    Was there still some bad blood between Denise Crosby and Rick Berman, or did the producers of the film simply forget? I would think that it would have made more sense if it was Sela who had manipulated Shinzon into doing what he did for her own benefit. Had Shinzon succeeded, Sela's revenge against Picard would have been that much sweeter. And if Shinzon failed, Sela could claim deniability. Of course, there could have been an opportunity for Yar to return, but, alas...
     
  2. DS9forever

    DS9forever Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The character wasn't that popular to warrant inclusion in a film.
     
  3. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    Sela wasn't Picard's nemesis, it was himself.

    In a manner of speaking, of course...
     
  4. bbjeg

    bbjeg Admiral Admiral

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    I'd rather have saw O'brien.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2014
  5. LOKAI of CHERON

    LOKAI of CHERON Commodore Commodore

    With all due, and genuine, respect to Denise Crosby, I don't think she's quite strong enough an actress to have pulled off a major guest starring role in a relatively high profile movie convincingly - particularly with the Sela character. Honestly, I think TPTB would have considered that had her name been even half seriously bandied about.

    For the record, I really like Denise Crosby and her portrayal of Tasha. I was extremely disappointed when she left the show.
     
  6. Khan 2.0

    Khan 2.0 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Crosby in Nemesis wouldve been the cherry on top
     
  7. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    What role could she have played? Taken Donatra's place as the Romulan Shinzon snubs? As a half-human, rejecting her would have muddied his weird half-human Troi lust.

    I thought Sela was a terrible character, anyway. A 21-year-old half human with the rank of Commander in the Romulan military? It would be a stretch in the Abramsverse, let alone the the TNG continuity. I'm amazed fans don't seem to pick up on the implausibility of it.
     
  8. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Actually, I had come up with an idea where instead of using the Enterprise-C for "Yesterday's Enterprise," they used the Enterprise-B during the Tomed Incident of 2311. That way the continuity about no contact with the empire for 50 years would have been acknowledged, and that Sela would have been a much older person and more believable as a Romulan commander (and much closer to Crosby's true age at the time, because as you rightly point out it strains credibility to have Sela be 21 years old).
     
  9. cardinal biggles

    cardinal biggles Patron Saint of Dangerous Driving Premium Member

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    You're much more diplomatic about it than I usually am. I think "couldn't act her way out of a wet paper bag" is the phrase I usually use. ;)
     
  10. GeorgeKirk

    GeorgeKirk Commodore Commodore

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    ALEX TREBEK: "The inclusion of this character in Star Trek: Nemesis is the one thing that would've made this movie even more unimaginably awful."

    JEOPARDY CONTESTANT: "Who is Sela?"

    TREBEK: "Correct."
     
  11. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    What's so implausible about it? Sela's father was a Romulan general by the time she was born. That might have enabled her to move quicker through the ranks, and "Balance of Terror" itself had suggested that good relations rather than actual performance were important. ;)

    Bob
     
  12. B.J.

    B.J. Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I would have much rather seen Tomalak in Nemesis. Would definitely have been more interesting seeing their old adversary there, and would have added a lot to the movie. Whether he'd be better on Nero's side or in the place of Donatra, that would be an interesting question to explore.
     
  13. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    That would have been a nice touch of continuity. But his last appearance in "All Good Things" had a somewhat comedic touch and he seemed most cooperative, so I think they had "killed" future prospects of Tomalak becoming an antagonist again.

    TOMOLAK [on viewscreen]: So, Captain how long shall we stare at each other across the Neutral Zone?
    PICARD: There is an alternative, Tomolak. We each know why we're here. We could each send one ship into the Neutral Zone to investigate the anomaly in the Devron System.
    TOMOLAK [on viewscreen]: Has Starfleet Command approved this arrangement?
    PICARD: No.
    TOMOLAK [on viewscreen]: I like it already. Agreed. One ship from each side. But I warn you, if another Federation starship tries to enter the Zone.
    PICARD: There is no need to make threats. We each know the consequences.
    TOMOLAK [on viewscreen]: Very well. I'll see you in the Devron system.

    Bob
     
  14. Synnöve

    Synnöve Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Because it would have been more expensive than casting... everyone else who appeared in the movie who had no previous relation to Star Trek, because it would have provided some continuity, would have made a little sense, etc.
     
  15. Rarewolf

    Rarewolf Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    She might have been too Romulan for him.

    I would have liked it, it would have bought things full circle. Perhaps Sela could even have ended up serving on the Enterprise.
     
  16. Crazy Eddie

    Crazy Eddie Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Right. Because the previously unknown Romulan clone of Picard with a dubious and implausible backstory was so much more popular.:rommie:

    Technically, she was. Picard, after all, was the one who sent her mother to certain death at Narendra-III and who thwarted her efforts in the Klingon Civil War and the invasion of Vulcan. Shinzon's motivation actually fits better with Sela than it does for Shinzon: the Federation really DID abandon her and her mother, and Picard really screwed her over on two separate occasions.

    And then there's Picard agonizing over Shinzon's unfortunate childhood and feeling all responsible for him. That sentiment earns a yawn if it's a clone he never knew about until now, but it would be a bit more powerful if the anguished Romulan adversary is actually the daughter of one of his former crewmembers, a woman whose existence he is actually responsible for (even if he doesn't remember it). If you consider the final scene on the Scimitar's bridge with Sela staring down Picard impaled on a pipe: for him, it would be like watching Tasha die all over again.

    And yet, consider the alternative:

    [​IMG]


    I'm not saying Sela would have been an awesome villain for Nemesis. I'm saying that the bar for this movie is already set so low that Sela could not possibly have been worse than Shinzon.
     
  17. Mage

    Mage Commodore Commodore

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    Personally, I think the writers/producers wanted to keep things accesible for non-fans. Which is absurd really, when you try and make a movie based on a tv-show, unless you do a complete reboot.
    So, they decided on a new villian, instead of one from the show. I wonder how non-fans would react to Wrath Of Khan, having never seen the original series' episode it was inspired by.
    Sure, it's easy for fans to say that the backstory was explained well enough for non-fans, but we know the backstory.

    So yeah, I think it was about keeping things simple for non-fans, casual viewers.
     
  18. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    "Balance of Terror" took place 100 years before Sela was born. If anything, Nemesis showed that regime changes on Romulus were commonplace, so what they did a century before would be irrelevant now. Even with the nepotism, I really have a hard time swallowing that this 21-year-old half-human girl would have been allowed to command a fleet of warbirds or be any kind of military leader.
     
  19. LOKAI of CHERON

    LOKAI of CHERON Commodore Commodore

    I can't comment on your Shinzon/Dr. Evil comparison as I've never seen the Austin Powers movies, nor do I have the slightest interest in doing so.

    Tom Hardy's acting prowess is qualitatively superior to Denise Crosby IMHO. I believe it's probable Nemesis would've indeed been even worse had DC been given the major guest starring role as Sela - or whatever character.
     
  20. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    That's entirely conjectural speculation on your part.

    "Balance of Terror" did establish that in Romulan society good connections to TPTB can outweigh rank and performance:

    DECIUS: Only in code, Commander. To inform our Praetor of this glorious mission.
    COMMANDER: Your carelessness might have ended this glorious mission. You're reduced two steps in rank. Return to post.
    CENTURION: Take care, Commander. He has friends, and friends of his kind mean power. And power is danger.

    There is no reason to assume that this has changed by the 24th Century, on the contrary Sela's young age with her father being a general strongly suggests that little or nothing has changed.

    Bob