Why no Captain Riker.

Discussion in 'The Next Generation' started by T'Girl, Sep 21, 2013.

  1. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    This come from reading the "Favorite Trek Couple" thread.

    it never occurred to me before, but I wonder if Riker turned down all of those promotions and starship commands not so he could remain on the Enterprise as Picard's first officer, but so that he could remain on the ship that had Deanna on board, to be close to her. There were various lovers through the years, but no one long term.

    Once she was married to him and willing to leave with him away from the Enterprise, then Riker moved on to his first command, the Titan.

    The impression I received from the first season of TNG was that Riker as a rapidly advancing young officer, and that the Enterprise was basically just a stepping stone for him, we find out later that he turned down a number of possibilities to advance.

    Was it mainly Deanna?

    :)
     
  2. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I always thought he was holding out for Picard to get promoted/move on to get the Enterprise's big chair.
     
  3. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

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    So Riker was stalking Troi? (ETA: essentially keeping an eye on her, making sure she made no attachments, and that Worf got no action)?
     
  4. RandyS

    RandyS Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Why does Riker being in love with Troi automatically mean that he's stalking her?

    No, the first two posts got it right.
     
  5. Triskelion

    Triskelion Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Interesting question, T'Girl....

    I think Riker recognized being on Enterprise was more important than personal achievement, pride, or control of his own ship. I think what the Enterprise represented, as Federation flagship, held more meaning for him and significance for the Federation. I think serving under Picard was a privilege, and he was willing to accept that role indefinitely - eventually leading, of course, to his captaincy of the Enterprise itself. His remaining aboard served his younger aspirations of achievement - but integrated a whole new, non-egotistical dimension to his ambitions. Serving aboard the Enterprise changed him.

    I think he appreciated Troi and they would always be there for each other - but knowing his personality, I don't believe he would find it necessary to prioritize family over duty. Particularly since they were both still sowing a few oats.

    There are (at least) two distinctive personality types - those who, among other factors, prioritize family over work, and vice versa. It's hard to pin down a fictional character because we all may see what that character evokes in us, so I submit there probably is no correct answer. Also, who knows what a writer-of-the-week would throw into the gumbo.

    Unquestionably she was a point in favor of staying.... If he wanted to sow more oats, that was never a problem for them in the enlightened (liberal Californian) future.
     
  6. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

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    I'm pretty sure I didn't equate being in love with stalking, just the proposed motivations ascribed to Riker. Indeed, I am being somewhat facetious, but although T'girl's proposition has its merits (and might even be cute), it would substantially change the character. In the real world, someone who kept close to someone they intended to marry while pursuing other relationships, some serious, would probably be considered a sign of having issues with relationships. More specifically, Riker keeping a flame for Troi cheapens those relationships he did have, some of them serious. His relationship with Soren (Riker effectively asked permission of Troi to date her, he was so serious) loses almost all of its emotional impact if he was committed, secretly, to someone else. He does address it in All Good Things, but he equivocates. Mostly, it's suggestive of how he behaved toward Worf when he discovered the relationship with Troi.
     
  7. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    He wanted the Enterprise and Picard refused to leave or die.
     
  8. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    If you really believe what happened in "These Are The Voyages" (ENT) then he obviously didn't have it in him to become captain of a starship.

    If he really needed a history lesson to make up his mind whether he should tell Picard the truth about the Pegasus Incident or not, then he wasn't "The Right Stuff".

    But it's a good thing to know that TATV has to be a piece of holodeck propaganda. He says to Deanna "Now I'm ready to talk to Picard (but I can't because I've been ordered by Admiral Pressman not to do so)." :rofl:

    Bob
     
  9. RandyS

    RandyS Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It was the way you worded it, "So Riker was stalking Troi?", that made me think so.

    As to your other points, "keeping up the drama" is really the only explanation I can offer.
     
  10. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I think that Riker definitely wanted to be on the Enterprise, but once there, got very comfortable as XO (a subject that was brought up more than once on the show).

    In the end, he moved on to his own command when he got good and ready. Following the rekindling of his romance with Troi in Insurrection, there may not have been any doubt that she was going to join him wherever he went. Upon finally accepting the Titan, Riker might have just decided to--as Beyoncé would say--"put a ring on it" with Troi.
     
  11. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    Well if you like we can go with one of Picard's speeches

    The first duty of every Starfleetofficer is to the truth... be it scientific truth, historical truth, or personal truth. It is the guiding principle upon which Starfleet is based. If you cannot find it within yourself to stand up and tell the truth about what happened... you do not deserve to wear that uniform.


    But as was stated in at least one episode being 1st Officer of the Enterprise did hold a certain prestige.
     
  12. JT Perfecthair

    JT Perfecthair Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Watching Jellico and Riker go at it makes it clear that one is Captain of a Starship and one is not. There would be a lot of "Jellico's" at the higher levels of Starfleet with which Riker would have been equally as successful with.

    You see the same in his dealing with Commander Shelby and even his own father, they are just different types of people than he is. Nothing wrong with that, some people make great dads, but not the best parent, which is the fundamental role of Captain.

    In many ways I think Riker is a great portrayal of an emotionally abused child. They often grow up into authority positions to please or prove something to the parent, but still hold onto parts of their childhood, protecting it from the abuser until they can live their own lives later on. Adult Riker jokes a lot, likes to kid and play games, sleep around, play music in clubs all night. Not a bit like serious old dad, or like a ships Captain.
     
  13. jpv2000

    jpv2000 Captain Captain

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    I like to think so. :luvlove:
     
  14. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Riker was turning down the promotions because any captain commission he would have gotten would have been on a far less important ship.
     
  15. Mycroft Maxwell

    Mycroft Maxwell Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    If I recall, Riker turned down the USS Drake (Arsenal of Freedom) before being assigned to the Enterprise. I don't think it was the Enterprise...well I think it may have been when the Melborne was offered to him.
     
  16. WillsBabe

    WillsBabe Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I can't find this thread. Where is it?

    To answer your question, though, I think it was a combination of things: he wanted the Enterprise; he wanted to be with Deanna, maybe for the first time in his life he was enjoying where he was rather than aiming at the next big thing. The question largely remains unanswered, even in the one conversation they address it. When Will and Deanna are discussing what he wants in BOBW, they still don't come to a conclusion other than he obviuously wants to be on the Enterprirse or doesn't want to be a captain at that time.
     
  17. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    T'Girl, you may be onto something.

    I agree with others that Riker was probably holding out for the Enterprise for a while, but that may've not just been it. It appears that many of the vessels he was offered were, um, lesser; the best that I recall him ever being offered was the Melbourne which was either Excelsior or Nebula class depending on your religion, and neither is as prestigious as the Enterprise.

    Allusions Riker made to how he belonged on the Enteprise also seem to suggest to me that perhaps Riker was coming to believe that something was missing from his life, and that perhaps his ambitions were not completely fulfilling him in the way he expected. Perhaps he was failing to realize that part of the reason for this was being around Deanna, and remembering how he felt for her?

    With Deanna at his side, perhaps he finally felt like he could get his career back on track and accepted the Titan when it was offered. I can't help but wonder if he was willing to accept the next ship that came along, rather than holding out for a Galaxy or Sovereign. Or, perhaps he needed to serve on a smaller ship before being ever offered one of those.
     
  18. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    Yes, I do like it. :D

    Essentially he delivered a shorter version at the end of "The Pegasus":

    Riker: I can't help but feel I should have come forward a long time ago.
    Picard: When the moment came to make a decision, you made the right one. You chose to tell the truth and face the consequences. So long as you can still do that, then you deserve to wear that uniform. And I will still be proud to have you as my First Officer.

    Bob
     
  19. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That may have damaged his command prospects more than anything else. Might explain why he stays with the Enterprise crew even after the loss of the D.
     
  20. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That or letting the Ferengi capture the Enterprise-D on his watch.
     

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