Why Let Khan Live?

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by Praetor Baldric, Jun 5, 2013.

  1. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    If Our Heroes debated every single way they've defeated similar situations every time they encountered a similar situation, the runtimes would at minimum triple...
     
  2. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It worked perfectly in Stargate SG1 and SGA. They often recalled solutions from previous episodes and then gave a reason why it wouldn't work this time.
     
  3. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

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    As a commanding officer, Kirk doesn't have the luxury of making that assumption. As far as he's concerned, Reliant is threat until it's not, Khan or no Khan. Salvaging the vessel would be a distant tertiary concern behind securing the vessel and getting back the Genesis device.

    I've wondered the same thing. If Kirk beams the device over before Khan activates it, there's no danger of Enterprise being destroyed. I don't know that trying to scramble the device with the transporter would have been a good idea. For all we know, that could've detonated the torpedo prematurely, killing everyone aboard both ships.

    --Sran
     
  4. Ríu ríu chíu

    Ríu ríu chíu Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ^ The Genesis device prevented the transporter from working. Once it's activated, it can't be stopped or beamed away.

    Remember Kirk suggested that they beam aboard the Reliant and stop it, and David replied "You can't."
     
  5. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

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    I think David was referring to them shutting the device down with the computer. There's no evidence the transporter couldn't be used to beam it away, though I don't know if doing so would be safe. It may have detonated prematurely if caught in a transporter beam for all we know.

    --Sran
     
  6. Ovation

    Ovation Vice Admiral Admiral

    Wait? What? There is a plot hole in TWOK? Say it ain't so. :shifty: ;)
     
  7. Gary7

    Gary7 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    On the contrary, as commanding officer he has the impetus to make considerations like this. The Reliant no longer had any means of attacking as all weapons were off line. It was adrift, inert. Khan was not responsive, so they had no idea if he was still alive. There was no good cause to destroy the ship at that point.

    Kirk wanted to beam aboard and stop it, which David said can't be done. He never said that a transporter cannot lock onto it once it is started. It's simply an option that wasn't explored, one that should have been. It would've been just a few seconds of dialog (raising the idea, then finding it's not possible for some specific explanation). That's what gets me in Star Trek, when known techniques to solve a problem aren't given consideration, especially when a technique is easily performed (like using a transporter).
     
  8. starburst

    starburst Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    All David meant was once started, the process cant be stopped, and as one of the lead scientists who built the device he would know if it was possible to shut it down or not.

    If this were nuTrek likely hood is either the nebula or the Genesis device would actually have interfered with the Enterprise transporter anyway.
     
  9. Ríu ríu chíu

    Ríu ríu chíu Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I'm sure that the Genesis torpedo's radiation would have prevented the transporter from working against it. They don't need to spell it out onscreen, we can infer it. When was the last time a transporter did manage to lock onto something that generated that much energy? They can't even do it with dilithium...
     
  10. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

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    What?
     
  11. Ríu ríu chíu

    Ríu ríu chíu Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ^ Dilithium can't be transported.
     
  12. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

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    I wasn't questioning that as I'm aware of it. I was disputing your assessment that we could reasonably conclude Genesis couldn't be beamed off Reliant.

    --Sran
     
  13. Gary7

    Gary7 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yes, given how Star Trek typically explores possible avenues of solutions, it's a perfectly good idea to test out. Kirk didn't even know that the Genesis device couldn't be shut down once started, so how could he know that the Genesis device gives off an energy field that transporter beams can't lock onto? My point is that he should have at least asked. Remember Nomad? Beamed into space, despite his enormous system overload. And of course, the idea is not to rematerialize the Genesis device, but simply override the re-energizer and then intentionally scramble the atoms of the Genesis device into a state whereby it can no longer explode.
     
  14. jayrath

    jayrath Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Kirk wasting bad guys is not what Star Trek is about.

    If it were, I would hate it.

    Some people here need to rewatch the scene in "The Corbomite Manuever," right before they go over to the alien ship.
     
  15. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Umm, what?

    Dilithium has been routinely transported in basically every episode featuring it in prop form - sometimes with the transporter operator even unaware that this special material is among the things being transported.

    "Mudd's Women": transporter is the supposed means of getting the stuff from the miners.
    "Alternative Factor": both of the Lazarus clowns make unauthorized transporter trips to the planet with the stuff. And it's supposed to be a source of power in both cases, so we can't even argue that dilithium only travels in some sort of "inactive" form.
    "Elaan of Troyius": Elaan's necklace comes aboard by transporter, and then our heroes realize it's ready-to-use dilithium.

    The only things ever quoted as untransportable have been shielded targets or complex, unstable biological substances ("Family Business"), and even that was an issue with an outdated transporter model only...

    Exactly. David says Kirk can't beam over and shut it down. In addition, David is sitting on the bridge of a starship that can blow other starships to smithereens, and neither him nor Kirk can be unaware of the fact that the ship could try to destroy Genesis as well. Since David indicates there is no hope, this course of action is automatically out by his expert opinion. Kirk doesn't need to ask silly questions on exactly why an attempt to destroy Genesis would fail - this would be complete waste of the remaining four minutes, and of audience time as well.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  16. Charles Phipps

    Charles Phipps Captain Captain

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    Kirk spared Khan because Khan WASN'T Space Hitler but Space Napoleon.
     
  17. Ssosmcin

    Ssosmcin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    How were you aware of that, since it has been transported in various episodes?

    Really wondering where you guys got that tidbit.
     
  18. Crazy Eddie

    Crazy Eddie Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The process through which a persons human rights may be revoked is called a "trial" or similar form of due process. You don't have your inalienable human rights pulled just because somebody decides that you're an asshole.
     
  19. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I thought Into Darkness had already covered that one...
     
  20. Lance

    Lance Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    This. :bolian: