Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by Zameaze, May 30, 2013.

  1. Zameaze

    Zameaze Commodore Commodore

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    I'm not understanding your point. I was establishing that he was indeed a crew member and was even given a rank, therefore he should have the rights of any other crew member. Maybe you can elaborate on your point.

    What Starfleet does or does not do, of course, doesn't change the morality of the issue.

    They couldn't choose to live, they weren't there. Janeway assumes Tuvok's and Neelix's desire without evidence. We could well imagine Tuvok arguing that Tuvix combined the abilities of both crew members, but would only require the resources and living space of one crew member, so, logically, he was far more efficient and useful than Tuvok and Neelix as separate beings. We could see Neelix arguing that he liked to be a dynamic duo with Tuvok, all squished into one. They well might have said nothing of the kind. The point is Janeway doesn't know and acts on emotion, not evidence, to murder Tuvix.

    Ethical programming given him by Starfleet.

    Brit, a question, now answer honestly, "Would you have given Tuvix due process?" Remember, he had committed no crime, and had expressed a clear desire to live.
     
  2. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Ethical programming he's allowed to jigger himself to follow his whims, as well as any other bugger, who can even remove it without any authorization like Ransom did.
     
  3. Zameaze

    Zameaze Commodore Commodore

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    You can't have it both ways, Guy--you can take the Doctor with ethical programming, or the bipolar lady yelling, "Off with their heads, Off with their heads!!"

    Well, there is another alternative, but...no, it's probably too extreme....maybe due process?
     
  4. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    My clouded point was that Janeway did not have the foresight to fix and abridge the doctor's ethical programming before she did a very bad thing.
     
  5. Zameaze

    Zameaze Commodore Commodore

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    Yes, a couple of episodes of MacGyver on the holodeck, and she would have known how to make the Doctor into her own Dalek.
     
  6. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    She knew how. She should know how. Former science officer of the USS Al-Batani.

    It didn't cross Kathryn's mind that she would have to.

    Londo Mollari said it best: "Truly mad people do not know that they are mad, they tend to talk about mad things as casually as you or I would talk about the weather."
     
  7. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I prefer Shakespeare: "If this be madness, there is method in it."

    Now that's Janeway.
     
  8. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    "Whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad"

    Euripides.

    When did they declare victory on making Kathy mad, and start trying to kill her?
     
  9. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    There are no gods. So, never.

    But if you want old greeks Aristotle says, "There is not genius without a mixture of madness."
     
  10. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Q is crying into his beer right now you heartless monster!
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2013
  11. Zameaze

    Zameaze Commodore Commodore

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    Nah, she didn't know how to do it. That was an affirmative action promotion. They didn't have their quota of female science officers, and Janeway had taken algebra in high school.
     
  12. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    There is no sexism or affirmative action in the future.

    Nepotism for an Admiral's child however?
     
  13. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Janeway definitely was friendly to every Admiral in sight from the few flashback episodes we saw. And even before Paris rocked her world in Threshold she was soft on him because of daddy. :p
     
  14. Zameaze

    Zameaze Commodore Commodore

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    Tell that to poor Harry Kim who almost got eaten by Terisian women who only wanted him for his sperm!
     
  15. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    There is no human on human sexism.

    Federationwide it's a bit iffy.

    Galaxywide there are sexist pigs everywhere.
     
  16. Zameaze

    Zameaze Commodore Commodore

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    OK, Captain Janeway is trapped with a male and a female crew member on a planet, her ship has been destroyed--it's back to basics. Who would she pick between the two if she decided it necessary that her eggs be fertilized. If she picks one or the other solely based on sex, she is being sexist.

    Sexism is still there in the future.
     
  17. Gov Kodos

    Gov Kodos Admiral Admiral

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    Biology isn't sexism. She isn't the worst captain. Troll threads are lame.
     
  18. Zameaze

    Zameaze Commodore Commodore

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    Are you saying that with a straight face? Biology has everything to do with it. Sexism is discrimination based on a person's sex.

    Men and women's brain structures are different. They have different hormonal levels. Men are better at some things (e.g., spatial tasks), women are better than men at other things (e.g., color perception). To ignore this is impossible in some situations, like the extreme example I gave, and ignorant in others.
     
  19. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Sexism is unfair discrimination based on a person's sex. It is not unfair that a man cannot give birth, this is not sexism. It's sex itself, as in biology.
     
  20. Captain Kathryn

    Captain Kathryn Commodore Commodore

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    Agreed...