Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by Zameaze, May 30, 2013.

  1. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Ryan certainly didn't save Voyager's ratings but it did temporarily curb the rate of decline.

    Janeway's ship was under siege because they happened to wave the same flag as a ship that was murdering innocent aliens. I think her actions are justified. She's not always a pragmatist but she would go to any extent to protect her crew.
     
  2. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Janeway was a bad Captain because the writers tried to make her a strong woman. And that never pays off. Same thing happened with Judi Dench's M in the new Bond films. Or President Roslin in nuBSG. They want them to appear strong and determined, and somehow that means that they make bad, morally questionable, controversial decisions. As long as they are tough while making those decision, it's fine.

    Janeway is wrong so many times during the show it's not even funny anymore. She sticks to her wrong decisions until almost everyone disagreed with her and tried to talk sense into her.
     
  3. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    A controlled decent?

    Rick Berman agrees with me, in the quote you supplied so poorly and referenced inaccurately. A shitty attempt at journalism which shot you in the foot. Rick agrees with me and must think that you are twisting his words inside out to justify your deformed convictions.

    Berman said in the news article you referenced an annotation of that after the 60 percent bump that the ratings went down again, a little higher than before, but not 60 percent up. Of course that was 1999, and the ratings continued to go down.

    6.5 is larger then 5 which is larger than 4 which is larger than 3.

    If you think that 3 is larger than 6 Zameaze, you must be god awful at parallel parking.

    This is interesting.

    meanwhile there's this from IMDB

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112178/trivia

    But who the hell knows who wrote that.

    You're asking me to find evidence that a bunch of nice people are secretly assholes bitching and backstabbing their friends and work-family? I suppose there's Beltran, but everyone else is far too classy to say a bad word about their meal ticket to the press and the internet.

    Voyager had a consistent rating of 3(ish) for most of it's final season.

    Scorpion II scored a 6.5

    Caretaker scored a 13.

    No one needs an insider to tell us that there was a significant decline in the ratings because this is 13

    1
    2
    3
    4
    5
    6
    7
    8
    9
    10
    11
    12
    13

    and this is three

    1
    2
    3

    And one of them is larger than the other.

    (It's 13. 13 is larger than 3.)
     
  4. Zameaze

    Zameaze Commodore Commodore

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    The same way you can compare the morality of the Marquis de Sade with that of Tomás de Torquemada.

    Maybe I should rephrase my original comment: Kate Mulgrew is a good actress; Avery Brook couldn't act his way out of a paper bag.
     
  5. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    What are you talking about? Sisko's

    "It's REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLL!"

    Was comedy gold!:rommie:
     
  6. Captain Kathryn

    Captain Kathryn Commodore Commodore

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    Captain Kathryn
    :lol:
     
  7. Zameaze

    Zameaze Commodore Commodore

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    I skimmed through this post but didn't find much.

    Really? You claim as a source: IMDb Star Trek: Voyager (1995–2001) Trivia. These are contributions from the readers. And the woman's statement that you quote begrudgingly admits a rise in ratings for Ryan's first few episodes.

    You keep repeating the self evident: the ratings went down until the show was cancelled. Do you think you are saying something profound? Of course they did: The show was cancelled. It certainly doesn't negate the fact that Jeri Ryan boosted Voyager's ratings when she entered the cast.

    But to give the devil his due, if I had started from where you did, I couldn't have gotten much farther.
     
  8. eskyliz

    eskyliz Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Oh man, I was bawling my eyes out at that point. That episode still brings me to tears every time I watch it. And I watch it a lot.
     
  9. Zameaze

    Zameaze Commodore Commodore

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    Ah, your comment brings back such fond memories:

    It's a fake!! No... ITS REAAAL!!!!!

    DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND, IT...IS...REEEAAALLLL!
     
  10. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I already said that the IMDB quote is bullshit, the statistics quote is not and the New York times quote is not. And I have always said that Jeri's first episodes which had 17 cubes, 8472 and 4 months of intensive advertising between seaosn 3 and 4 did have the 60 percent bump Berman says it did, but then ratings fell, and fell and felling. The ratings went up for one story. That's a blip not a trend.

    Your steadfast point of view to this point is that the ratings didn't go down.

    Or that you can identify how the ratings went down slower because Seven of Nine drew in millions of new viewers.

    The only thing I have ever said is that the ratings went down, and the only thing you have ever said is that I can't prove that the ratings went down because the ratings don't reflect the ratings.

    And you have repeatedly called me an idiot for saying that the ratings went down until you finally just admitted now that the ratings went down and that I was an idiot for clambering about the self-evident decline in ratings, when that's all you've been fighting for the last two days.

    The ratings went down.

    Seven didn't save the show.

    Jeri sleeping with Brannon Bragga probably helped, but until the sex tape comes out there's no proof that either of them had a realtionship other than that it was completely public and and they confirmed it at every turn.

    If you NOW agree that the ratings went down, if you have always agreed that the ratings went down, what the fuck has been your reason for saying that the ratings didn't do down and that only an insider can clarify what the ratings really mean?

    What exactly is this magical non exsistent quote you wanted me to find?

    What the hell do you think I have been trying to say other than that the ratings have been going down?
     
  11. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I disagree about Roslin, I thought she was an extremely well written character. The only really bad decision she made was not stealing the election from Baltar.

    But yeah, most screenwriters tend to think 'Strong woman' means either 'A man with boobs' or 'A woman who provokes people arbitrarily'.

    In the case of Janeway her wrong decisions tend to all carry the same theme: "We must get home at all costs, but we must also not defy our principles". And that was written into the character so early the writers could not have ignored it.

    And whatever problems Janeway had, she was way better than Archer. At least Janeway had ways of expressing herself besides tilting her head slightly, crunching her nose a little and acting indignant.
     
  12. Zameaze

    Zameaze Commodore Commodore

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    Then we're in agreement.

    Not at all; I never said that.


    That was never my point. I never said that.

    From the first I said that the ratings going down was, of course, an incontrovertible fact. I was perplexed as to why you kept repeating it.

    I had a professor who use to say, "we all use the same vocabulary but have different dictionaries."
     
  13. Lt. Uhura-Brown

    Lt. Uhura-Brown Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I thought this was going to be a whole load of sexist "woman driver" jokes.

    We only think she's the worst because we have a very very small sample size. Perhaps they're almost all like her and the other captains who we've seen TV shows about are the unique uncharacteristically competent ones?
     
  14. Zameaze

    Zameaze Commodore Commodore

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    It makes you wonder if Freud had something with penis envy. Why do women insist that the men do everything wrong, and then try to emulate them by appropriating their least desirable qualities!
     
  15. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Saying that there was a weekly increase of %60, is not the same as saying that there was a an increase of %60 for one week. Well it is the same but the former suggests an indeterminate amount of time in which this %60 percent boost persisted, which might have been and was more than likely, but not necessarily longer than one week.

    All I ever objected to is that the %60 jump lasted longer than one story, but you somehow decided that I was saying that the %60 percent bump never happened, which is silly.
     
  16. Zameaze

    Zameaze Commodore Commodore

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    Well, your saying, "It's not clear that she brought new fans to the show," probably led me to believe that.
     
  17. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    But they aren't really new "fans" if they don't stay around, are they? They're just people who checked it out thanks to the hot blonde in the advertising.
     
  18. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Or maybe Jeri gained the show 2 million new fans in season 4 as 3 million old fans left... Or did all 5 million Kes loving loyalist march out in disgust, as 4 million Borgophiles started setting up camp?

    It's not clear, means that we don't know the ratio of how many new people turned up for Scorpion, as the old fans were abandoning the series, but since the over all numbers were going down, the more fanboys and fangirls who were only in it for Seven, who only started watching Voyager for Seven, it's a mathematical truth that an even greater number of couch potatoes were abandoning Star Trek.

    And then there's converts. Frakkers who would have left, but chose to stay because of Seven... And what about the 2 guys that left because they hated Jeri Ryan?
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2013
  19. Zameaze

    Zameaze Commodore Commodore

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    If you have a 60% jump in one episode, some always stay around. Take a look at Tabachnick's Using Multivariate Statistics, and Tracking the Audience: The Ratings Industry.
     
  20. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Are you forgetting the 4 months, and million dollar force de jore ad campaign it took to generate that %60 abnormality in the ratings?

    Besides, all the sexists pigs who arrived to autoabuse themselves to the promised masturbatory aid from the marketing literature, a hot blonde in the silver cat suit, might have been mildly repulsed by the veiny, rotting, bald, Frankenstein, cyborg who presented herself for their depraved titillation in Scorpion.

    Sometimes we all come home from the DVD store with the wrong porn.