Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by Zameaze, May 30, 2013.

  1. Zameaze

    Zameaze Commodore Commodore

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    Not for Janeway it wasn't: Janeway always looked like a sack of laundry when standing next to Seven! If Janeway were to come out on top in the last episode, she would have had to blind Chakotay.
     
  2. Brit

    Brit Captain Captain

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    At least Janeway wasn't the one wearing a girdle. In fact she wouldn't wear the dreaded "Star Trek Bra" but that is another story.
     
  3. Zameaze

    Zameaze Commodore Commodore

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    But that's obvious--like I said, Janeway looked like a sack of potatoes next to Seven. No matter what she wore she wasn't going to be any competition for Seven, but couldn't she have at least tried? For the series? When Braga told Kate Mulgrew she needed to wear a push-up bra, maybe she should have listened.
     
  4. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yes it should have been a ship of Barbies. Women should all push their titties up to look good for you.
     
  5. Zameaze

    Zameaze Commodore Commodore

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    Well, that would be nice, too. But actually they should look good for the audience. After the addition of Jeri Ryan's Seven to the crew at the start of the fourth season, the shows' weekly viewer ratings increased by more than 60%.
     
  6. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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  7. TheSubCommander

    TheSubCommander Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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  8. Zameaze

    Zameaze Commodore Commodore

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    Yes it did, Guy.
    According to Hanania, Joseph (February 7, 1999). "Signoff: Intergalactic Generation Gap," The New York Times, Voyager's weekly viewer ratings increased by more than 60% after the addition of Jeri Ryan's Seven to the crew.
     
  9. Zameaze

    Zameaze Commodore Commodore

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    Interview by TrekMovie.com Staff from January 20, 2011

    How hard was it for you, personally, when, in the middle of the show’s run, Jeri Ryan arrived on the set to play Seven of Nine?

    Mulgrew: I found that that was hard....So I resented that and I was hurt by the immediate, extraordinary attention given to this character. The numbers went up. And I thought, “Ah, you can’t argue with a business decision and you can’t argue with sex.” That’s just part of life, but all of that is very difficult for a woman, particularly an actress like me.



    The New York Times
    SIGNOFF; Intergalactic Generation Gap
    By JOSEPH HANANIA

    Published: February 07, 1999

    When Jeri Ryan joined the cast of ''Star Trek: Voyager'' in its third season, in the fall of 1997, ratings soared 60 percent. They have since remained up, though not at that lofty level, said Rick Berman, an executive producer of the show
     
  10. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Nielson ratings are calculated from a sampling of viewers and is the only indicator they have which suggests what their actual viewing numbers are... Are you claiming the graph or the actual numbers I supplied/found are fraudulent?

    Regardless...Television universe estimated at 95.4 million households; therefore one rating point is equivalent to 954,000 TV homes.

    Now either that person you're quoting was lying or they shaped their answer, to maybe have said something like "males between 19 and 35" increased by 60 percent, or they're talking about a much smaller time frame than you expect.

    Although a bump of 60 percent, is from a Nielson of 4 to 7, which almost looked like that did happen if I found the right place in the line graph, but really it looks like a jump from 4 and a 1/2 to 6.

    There's probably a better graph of Voyager's Nielson's out there, or even actual table

    http://users.telenet.be/WebTrek/Voy/Ratings/ratings.html

    Worst case scenario got a 4.0, Scorpion 1 got a 5.6 which is a 40 percent bump. Scorpion II was 6.5 which is a %63 bump from Worst Case Scenario, but there's only a 16 percent bump between Scorpion I and 2 after a massive hiatus and huge word of mouth and many reruns... The Gift However is 5.6, which means that lost that %16 in a fraction of the time it took them to generate it, and day of Honour was 4.5 which is a 30 percent decline from Scorpion two... And then their ratings just criss crosses across either side of 4 for the rest of the season almost perilously close to 2.9 with Vis a Vis half way though the season.

    Scorpion was an event.

    Borg.

    Big Numbers.

    Jeri was there too.

    It didn't last.

    Week to week, her Borginess may have slowed the decline, but she didn't bring in TNG numbers which was double and/or triple what Voyager was pulling. She may have made the show more entertaining for the few in the world who were watching it, but Jeri Ryan/Seven of Nine was not generating and keeping new viewers.

    It's a line graph.

    The line is going down.

    Not up.

    If it's going up some is saving the show.

    If it's holding steady, some one is still going to get fired.

    If it's going down, the show is dying and every one gets fired.

    Voyager still did mostly do double Enterprises Numbers.

    Fan fatigue.
     
  11. Zameaze

    Zameaze Commodore Commodore

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    Nope. I'm saying it is a red herring. Kate Mulgrew is claiming that Jeri Ryan boosted Voyager's ratings. Rick Berman is claiming that Jeri Ryan boosted Voyager's ratings, and that they stayed at a higher level than they would have been at without her.

    The fact that the ratings went down until the show was cancelled would seem to be self evident (ratings rarely go up until the show is cancelled) and has nothing to do Ryan's character: It's clear that she brought additional fans to the show, many of whom remained to the end. Without them Voyger's run would have ended sooner.

    When the executive producer and the star of Voyager give Jeri Ryan credit for helping the show, I have to believe that you are just trying to stir the pot by saying that she didn't.
     
  12. M.A.C.O.

    M.A.C.O. Commodore Commodore

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    Substitute NuPike's demotion speech to NuKirk in STID with Janeway and you have your problem. Pike regarding Kirk: "You think you're infallible. You think you can't make a mistake. It's a pattern with you. The rules are for other people. And what's worse is you're using blind luck to justify your playing god".

    While I like the character of Janeway. She suffered from overt favoritism from the writers and production crew. I suspect it was a way of overcompensating to make the first female Star Trek captain not seem weak, foolish and or incompetent. By "Endgame" Janeway is arrogant and with a hyperinflated ego. VOY's premise was lost in space trying to make it home. We knew from episode 1 they would make it home eventually.


    While Janeway certainly didn't have it easy. She certainly wasn't breaking the rules or living on the edge like Capt Ransom from Equinox. I really like the season 5 arc that began with "Night". Janeway secluded in her quarters lamenting her decision to strand 150 people in the DQ. With what we know about how easily and for random reasons starships blow up in the Alpha and Beta Quadrants. You add in a multitude of unknown alien threats, and known threats Borg and Species 8472, who wouldn't regret and second guess their decision?

    However Janeway is virtually faultless and infallible. She makes all the right decisions and escapes always despite insurmountable odds.
     
  13. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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  14. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It's not clear that she brought new fans to the show.

    It is clear that the existing fans appreciated her, although there were less and less existing fans each week/month/year.

    It's called "spin"

    If the producers start saying "we made a terrible decision, a series of terrible decisions, because we're awful at our job" loud enough and often enough, it's not actors who are going to get fired the next time someone starts trimming the fat.

    Jeri was fantastic, Seven of Nine is exactly what I wanted, but lets be clear about this, I was not the demographic they were losing or needing to lasso and force to sit in front of their idiot boxes.

    The producers did what they did very well, but no one was interested, and they didn't know how to jigger their brand into something saleable without alienating their dwindling audience which they were most probably not allowed to do, and is why they did nothing despite the forewarned doom.

    The highest aggregated rated Shows during Voyagers run were Seinfeld and ER years 1 - 5, Who wants to be a million year 6 and Survivor for Year seven, all scoring in the low 20s to the high teens.

    None of these series used a half naked pretty girl to get were they got.

    Long ago when America was a different country, when this happened, I love Lucy scored a 67.

    I didn't know Lucille was hot until I saw her movies, because the acting and her character on the telly was more important than her body.
     
  15. Zameaze

    Zameaze Commodore Commodore

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    It is blindingly clear! And now I know you're just yanking my chain, so I shall bow out of this confabulation.
     
  16. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    This is me being very reasonable.

    Just the facts.

    I assure you that when I am being obstinate, shit gets real.

    You're refuting math with interpretation of math by individuals who would lie or repeat lies they've been told.

    Jeri's %60 bump, lasted 1 episode, and only raised Voyager's ratings to a little over half what they were getting in season one.

    You could just as easily claim that it was Wang being "selected" as one of the worlds sexiest people is what saved the show... Even if it didn't, which it didn't, but the claim that his spunkiness saved the show from premature cancellation is equally as spurious as that Jeri did or the Delta Flier did.

    Remember when the Network said Fuck you to the Duke's of Hazzard, you don't deserve a raise! The real star is the car, so why don't you just fuckity fuckity fuck off, and we'll find us another couple of hillbilles to drive our star around."

    The year of Coy and Vance did not bode well for the network.

    How much danger was Voyager of being cut from the line-up by year 5, 6 or 7?
     
  17. Zameaze

    Zameaze Commodore Commodore

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    Our memories of what a sensation Jeri Ryan was as Seven at that time should really suffice, but in addition, we have the cast of Voyager, including Kate Mulgrew; and innumerable news agencies, including The New Your Times, who you assume can't read the Nielson ratings and interpret them properly--you are the only one with the specialized knowledge to do this. Or is it that our memories, Kate Mulgrew, and the news agencies are lying to us (as you hint above) for some nefarious reason that only you and Mel Gibson know about?
     
  18. JiNX-01

    JiNX-01 Admiral Admiral

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    Um, which episode was that?
     
  19. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    This is when John hailed the bastards that wanted to kill them for no reason in silent enemy.

    this is a couple episodes earlier in flight or flight when Hoshi was taught what to put in Johns letter head and postscript.

    It all kinda mushes together into one blob after a while.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2013
  20. eskyliz

    eskyliz Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Really? You've got to be kidding me. You're saying Janeway was awful because she didn't look sexy enough? Come on! This is stupid. What you said goes against everything Star Trek has to say about what it wants the future of our world to be. They didn't have a female captain just to satisfy you. Goodness. The whole point was to make her seem just as strong as any of the male captains. Pushing up her tits would just be making her a Barbie for all the people like you who can't handle that maybe a woman doesn't have to be a toy. That is actually really ridiculous. Wow. :brickwall: