Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by Zameaze, May 30, 2013.

  1. Zameaze

    Zameaze Commodore Commodore

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    OK, I'll start with an example from "Equinox." (I'd better save the subject of Tuvix for Guy Gardener or some one equally eloquent on the subject).

    Janeway tortures Crewman Lessing to get intel on Ransom, against whom she has a personal vendetta. She confines Chakotay to his quarters for stopping her and for telling her that torture is wrong. She tells the aliens that if they'll stop attacking Voyager she'll deliver the Equinox to them. When Tuvok points out that will be certain death for the Equinox crew she threatens to confine him to quarters too.
     
  2. xBiophagex

    xBiophagex Ensign Newbie

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    Yes, I agree. She's inconsistent, and disregards her morals when they don't suit her, and she doesn't hold the same aura of authority as Picard or Sisko.
     
  3. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Janeway didn't torture Lessing. She only intimidated the evil ensign. Noah was perfectly safe because she knew exactly how Chakotay was going to react. It was all a clever ploy. That's what command is. Know how your underlings are going to cope under pressure and and take that into account when planning your caper.

    Later Kathy outright lied to those space beasties, there was no way in hell she was going to hand over even the worst Starfleet officers to be eaten by monsters.

    LYING!

    Kirk did that all the time and no one cared.

    Are women not allowed to lie?

    Meanwhile she had to stay in character when threatening Tuvok, because they didn't know if the space monsters chasing them were watching or/and listening through their shields.

    You didn't understand that it was all a cunning ruse?

    During the Sting in season 2 when they tricked Chakotay into kicking Tom off the ship, they didn't bring Chuckles into the fold, because no bugger trusted his truly awful, awful acting... There was a novel where after sitting though his one man performance of Hamlet, three crewmen took their own lives.

    Chakotay couldn't even act that he was an 8472 acting at being himself without breaking character and blowing his undercover mission. That Archer woman Chakotay made out with was able to hide as a Cylon in plain sight for four years! He couldn't Donnie Brasco it for 15 minutes!

    Meanwhile his feelings, get really hurt when you admit that he's been used as a cats paw stooge patsy, so it's best not to award him of the full facts post mission where, when and how he's used.

    And his instincts for deception are SHIT!

    As captain of the Val Jean, he had a Starfleet Security officer, an Obsidian Order officer, and a Section 31 officer working under him in a ship the size of a shoe box!

    It's possible that Chakotay might have some sort of faceblindness or aspergers where he is so incapable of reading facial expressions, that anyone can lie to his face guilelessly in complete safety.
     
  4. eskyliz

    eskyliz Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Oh come on! You're judging her whole career throughout the whole series on one episode when she did questionable things. Don't forget she was able to keep the ship going and the crew's morale high even though they were 75,000 lightyears away from earth. Her captaining was obviously going to have to be a little bit different when she was stranded in the delta.
     
  5. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    There's conflicting canon, but Voyager was (Sometimes) her first command. Before this Kathryn didn't have a captaining style or a reputation for being any sort of particular sort of captain. She was a science officer promoted out of Science because she's terrible at science. Failing upward. Her father was an admiral and I'm pretty sure she used to sleep with her former CO, Owen Paris, so it was a given that Kathryn is going to be an Admiral one day because of nepotism, the old school tie and a few greased secret handshakes.

    Here's what I really don't understand Zameaze... Do you honestly think that Captain Ransom is a better Captain than Captain Janeway? I know that you need a maniac to catch a maniac but come one, puh-lease! Your claim is that Janeway sunk to such depths in bringing Ransom to justice, if she wasn't just picking on Rudy, that her next step should have been locking herself up for how she caught him?
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2013
  6. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Garth of Izar is the worst Star Trek captain. He BLEW UP Marta, and also there was some genocide iirc.
     
  7. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Captain Tracy melted thousands of Space Communists with a stolen phaser.

    Seriously one phaser killed 10 thousand savages who were employing medieval siege tactics in less than 15 minutes by one crazy unshaven bastard, but when Janeway, or some goldshirt under her shoots anybugger, their arm gets singed and the baddies drop whatever they were holding.

    It's like the R&D boys said to them selves "This wide beam setting is a bad idea, do we really want our officers sent out there with hand guns that can make city blocks vanish?"
     
  8. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    That's because Chakotay's a bitch.
    She was furious, but wouldn't have actually done it.

    See also Captain Archer, who tortured a space pirate in an airlock, bombed an unarmed Xindi colony to buy some time and later stole a random ship's warp core standing them in the Expanse...

    But I'd say all that (excepting the Xindi bombing, where he could have sent a squad of MACOS to disable them) was justified, considering the circumstances.

    Then there's what Sisko did when going after Eddington, attacking planets with bioweapons just because Eddington made a fool of him earlier.
     
  9. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    You want to talk about Archer?

    One of his first first contacts, he transmits coordinates to Earth to some bug eyed baddies before he's completely finished saying hello to prove that they are friendly and doe eyed with no aggressive intentions, which is when the bug eyes started shooting at him, with probably plans to sell most of his crew into slavery who they didn't think would blend well into Friday night's casserole.

    "Sigh"

    Oh! OH! OH!

    What about Harriman?

    First day on the job and he kills Kirk.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2013
  10. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    Oh, please. Kirk dies all the time.
     
  11. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    And Janeway doesn't?!

    In Coda she died 15 times!

    What about Picard in Rascals!? He... Well, I suppose "ACTING" Captain Riker is to blame, but he lost the Flagship to a handful of 70 year old Klingon relics, staffed by a dozen beancounting Ferengi!
     
  12. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yes. Yes.
     
  13. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Methinks the woman doth protest too much.

    You are afraid and resent how much you're drawn to that monkey.
     
  14. Lance

    Lance Commodore Commodore

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    Of course, his defence at the court martial was that Kirk wasn't meant to die until Tuesday.
     
  15. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Sure Janeway is inconsistent, preachy about her morals yet perfectly willing to throw them aside when it suits her and borderline insane..... but at least she's competent. Jonathan Archer is not.
     
  16. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    Janeway killed Tuvix.
     
  17. Lance

    Lance Commodore Commodore

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    That was self-defence.

    (Pre-meditated self-defence.)
     
  18. Zameaze

    Zameaze Commodore Commodore

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    Leave it to Guy to try to spice things up by making this a women's lib issue rather than a competency and morality issue.

    OK, let's go on to another episode. In "Scorpion" Janeway is in trouble so she offers the Borg a way to defeat their enemy. She thinks it will be all better if she gives some really, really advanced technology to starfleet's worst enemy.
     
  19. stj

    stj Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Feh! Janeway was correct in The Swarm; Equinox; Tuvix; Scorpion; Prey, and Memorial. All arguments to the contrary have been decisively exploded, except for Tuvix. But there is no "correct" decision possible for the Tuvix dilemma, given the crazy premises, so there can't be a wrong one either.

    The conclusion that Janeway was crazy and a bad captain needs new arguments, since the old ones are so pathetic. Feeling generous today, I'll proffer a few suggestions?

    Janeway was too humane in Parallax in saving the space amoeba. Worse, she was too favorable to Torres, who assaulted a crew mate for no good reason, just because she liked Torres' enthusiasm and quickness.

    Janeway should taken control of the craziness in Blood Fever instead of letting Paris condescend to save Torres from a fate worse than death.

    Janeway should have locked up Chakotay to save him from Seska. The script wrote in a save but plainly, on his own, Chakotay would have been changing diapers and washing her dishes for the rest of his life.

    Janeway should have told Torres to get the hell out of sick bay in Barge of the Dead. Letting subordinates trip out on near death experiences!?!

    Janeway should have reprogrammed the Doctor in Nothing Human (or was it, Only Human?) Time heals people, not computer programs. I know, I've tried it with my OS. And she should have pulled the plug on Crell Moset herself.

    Janeway shouldn't have turned over the alien for execution. The Doctor found and cured the physical cause of mental illness.

    Janeway should have bonked whozis in Counterpoint till he never had a chance to think straight.

    Janeway should have put Torres into therapy, both during her supposed bout of depression (the one Chakotay slapped her out of,) and during the mad scheme to whiten her baby in seventh season. And put Chakotay in the brig for assaulting Torres.

    Janeway shouldn't have been all weepy over Kim in Muse, since she hardly even spoke to him. And she should've demoted Torres for breaking the PD just because she wanted to help the guy finish his play.

    Janeway should've checked the damn cargo in Nightingale, instead of letting a young officer fly off, especially when he'd already been emotionally invested in the aliens. This was grossly irresponsible.

    Janeway shouldn't have punished Kim the way she did, but since she had, she shouldn't have let him yell at her on the bridge in The Disease. Again, she's his mother figure, he's not her surrogate son. There is no sibling rivalry between Seven and Kim. And there's no hint of incest baring 7/Kim

    Janeway/Seven of Nine? Most guys seem to enjoy lesbianism if the women end up settling for second best. But Janeway never did settle, did she? Gotta hate her for that, right, guys?
     
  20. eskyliz

    eskyliz Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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