why is star trek original series disliked

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by tmosler, Jul 17, 2013.

  1. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    THIS is exactly what I was commenting on and what really pisses me off. The Adam West Batman and Star Trek cannot be lumped together in any way whatsoever. Batman was deliberate camp while TOS never was. If someone things TOS is camp then I strongly suspect they do not really understand what camp is.
     
  2. Lance

    Lance Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    And I think the people who associate it with being high drama fail to see the fun which is inherent in the format. I acknowledge there's definitely a middle ground to be found though.
     
  3. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    Something being occasionally fun and something being deliberate mockery are two distinctly different things. The Adam West Batman (and shows like Get Smart) deliberately spoofed and mocked the subject matter. That was their reason for being. Star Trek could do humour (and better than any spinoff series or film), but it was never deliberate mockery of the subject matter.
     
  4. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    One could make a case for "The Trouble With Tribbles," "A Peice Of The Action" and "I, Mudd" deliberately veering into camp, particularly the latter two episodes. But two or three episodes deliberately humourous episodes out of seventy-nine does not make the series predominantly camp as a whole.

    I am presently rewatching The X-Files. There are episodes with an obvious humourous slant, but they are very few. The series did exhibit an evident humour running throughout (much like TOS or Stargate or many other series), but it certainly isn't seen as a lighthearted show even by a long shot.
     
  5. Chemahkuu

    Chemahkuu Admiral Admiral

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    I didn't think TOS was significantly disliked, I've seen plenty of support for it from this community ever since I joined and constant discussions, artwork, representation (nearly all positive) for it all along.

    The volume of artwork, fanfiction, fan productions, prop work and even things as simple as the amount avatars here still show a strong support and love of the show.

    If anything, as Daniel mentioned, TNG is a lot more frequently ridiculed these days. I grew up on it but I still prefer TOS to it.
     
  6. tmosler

    tmosler Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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  7. Noname Given

    Noname Given Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^^^
    Why type a response when this one fits me to a tee? ;)
     
  8. Irishman

    Irishman Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I don't know where you might have heard such sentiments.
     
  9. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Clean Old Mod Moderator

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    I think this post might have been better off in General Trek, where some of the people who don't like TOS could have shared their views. You're preaching to the choir here.
     
  10. Kinokima

    Kinokima Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I don't think I want to read negative opinions about TOS so I am glad it's been mostly people saying why it's great.

    I got upset enough when someone bashed McCoy on this thread. :)
     
  11. CaptainBearclaw

    CaptainBearclaw Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Wait, someone dislikes TOS?! Who is this person?!!!? WHERE IS HE?!?! LET ME KILL HIM!!!!!!
     
  12. J.T.B.

    J.T.B. Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    People seem to use the word "camp" a lot and I'm not sure I understand how they mean it. Traditionally it meant an exaggerated and conscious theatricality or outrageousness, and especially that which referred to or hinted at gay culture.

    The episodes mentioned above were just comedy, or at least comedic, episodes. It was quite common at the time for dramatic or action shows to have occasional comedic episodes. Gunsmoke had them, as did The Big Valley, Wild Wild West, The Man from U.N.C.L.E. and so on. Bonanza was practically half comedy in its later seasons.
     
  13. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    In "A Piece Of The Action" the Iotians as 1920's gangsters were a spoof, an exaggeration of a stereotype perpetuated in 1930's films. And in "I, Mudd" we see the androids act in an exaggerated manner of how such things might be seen in B movie sci-fi. And note that in "What Are Little Girls Made Of?" and "Requiem For Methuselah" androids are not depicted in such an exaggerated way.
     
  14. trevanian

    trevanian Rear Admiral

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    Including naturally-occurring humor within drama is just good character-based storytelling, whether it is TREK or STREETS OF SAN FRANCISCO or HAVE GUN. Part of what makes the TOS characters so lovable is that they aren't just about business, they seem to have lives outside of the plot of the week, and they react in a human rather than programmed way to situations, and that means you don't always just have stock replies, and sometimes wit comes out of that, just as it does in life.

    One reason I found the ModernTrek/Berman era so unappealing (outside of DS9) was because these people didn't have that life to them (except guest stars and occasionally Riker.) Y'know, like just having one time when they get yet ANOTHER emergency panic alert from Starfleet and Riker could say, 'Someone's probably lost a tribble.'
     
  15. RandyS

    RandyS Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Basically, anything that isn't "dark", with characters wallowing in constant "angst" and "Daddy issues" is dismissed as "camp". "Fun", an characters who act like actual people is not allowed.

    This view is incorrect. These stories have their place, and I can enjoy them on occassion, but now pretty much EVERYTHING has become that. And it has become tedious.
     
  16. CaptainBearclaw

    CaptainBearclaw Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    ^You're right, where did this mentality start anyway. Why does what was once escapist fiction have to keep getting pounded with depressing issues? And why is it we dismiss anything not following this mentality as CAMP?!
     
  17. JJohnson

    JJohnson Captain Captain

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    I grew up on the original series before adding Next Generation to my viewing. I remember seeing Kirk and all at 5 AM every Saturday morning - Wolf in the Fold, Doomsday Machine, City on the Edge of Forever...all the classics. I understood the fx were limited, which is why I thoroughly loved the remastering for replacing and updating most of the fx (planets, ship shots being the biggest upgrades. Transporters still looked 2d and like 2 shots pasted together) to make the show more watchable overall. TNG-Remastered is very much missing the boat in not doing any updates at all (no new entering orbit, no new establishing shots, no updated transporter fx, no new ships to replace the 10K Excelsior, Miranda, Oberth ships, etc.).

    I can understand and appreciate the original series for what it was, and it was a product of the 60s, but it showed a positive vision of the future, unlike so many shows today (Continuum, BSG, etc). That was a great part of it, that we could overcome all the problems of today and come out better for it.
     
  18. YJAGG

    YJAGG Commander Red Shirt

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    I love TOS I gre up watching the reruns for 42 years, are they all winners, nope , but it's Trek
     
  19. JJohnson

    JJohnson Captain Captain

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    I can agree with you. Personally, I'm getting or have already gotten very burned out on dark, angsty, conspiracy, angry, snarky, pessimistic TV. Endless CSI/NCIS/Law&Order spinoffs, Twilight, Continuum, Orphan Black, X-Files, Battlestar Galactica '04, ST: Enterprise in a few spots, and dozens of others. Why can't we have optimistic TV again? The Original Series characters weren't angry or full of odd personal problems just to give them faux depth. McCoy and Spock bantered back and forth, but you could tell they were friends, ditto the rest of the senior staff. They could quip and joke while getting their mission done. In comparison, I would prefer a new Trek series more in the mold of the original series over Voyager, DS9, TNG, or Enterprise in the overall mood of the series.
     
  20. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    I tend to agree that many interpret something with a generally positive aspect to it to be campy. If they really need a dismissive word then perhaps what they want is "corny" which means something much different than campy.

    TOS could do all kinds of stories yet throughout it was generally positive and idealistic, things that are seen as "campy" today. And note that a lot of film and television SF tends to be edgier, somewhat darker and cautionary about the future.

    Stargate: SG-1 was a lot like TOS in terms of its storytelling and by contemporary standards it, too, might be labeled as campy, but it (like TOS) was certainly nothing of the kind. Same with Babylon 5.