Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Mr Light, Jan 3, 2014.

?

Nemesis

  1. Excellent

    3 vote(s)
    1.6%
  2. Good

    31 vote(s)
    16.6%
  3. Average

    48 vote(s)
    25.7%
  4. Bad

    49 vote(s)
    26.2%
  5. Terrible

    56 vote(s)
    29.9%
  1. Smellmet

    Smellmet Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Good point!
     
  2. GalaxyX

    GalaxyX Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yup! lol

    I feel sorry for Gates McFadden. She was probably the hottest female on TNG, but in Nemesis she looks about 80 years old, take a year or so.

    I’ll say that Brent Spiner also looked pretty old. However, the horribly caked makeup didn’t help anything. Why couldn’t they just stick to the TNG makeup, which looked 10 times better!

    Addiction to what? Steroids? He looks quite beefy in Dark Knight Rises compared to the waif he was in Nemesis

    When a movie is enjoyable, you find it easier to ignore inconsistencies, and/or missing pieces of story.

    When a movie was horrible, it’s so much easier to nitpick everything that was bad in it.

    Made worse by Captain Picard asking Troi to do it again for benefit of the ship.

    I just pretend Valeris is having a Vulcan orgasm :)

    Makes the scene 10 times better for me.

    You consider Data’s death, and that horrid dune buggy scene to be “good bits”. Wow ok.

    You can tell by that goofy grin he has while driving that stupid dune buggy around. Fuck you Patrick Stewart!

    No, the TNG films sucked because they had no scope. They didn’t reach for something epic and imaginative. The good TNG episodes did. All except First Contact were basically cardboard cutout baddies and generic stories about defeating them. First Contact was the only TNG movie that had any scope to it.

    Everyone looked virtually the same in TMP, but the sets and styles were different. They could have done so with TNG.

    IF they wanted a dune buggy scene, it could have been written into the story, as opposed to some throwaway cameo moment that makes zero difference to the story.

    You lost me at killing Data. And why does Picard have to die. What’s wrong with you people wanting to see beloved characters die? Fuck you all!!

    I get this is what they were trying to sell. Really it’s just grasping at straws for a plot. It’s just not believable.

    This is what I was expecting to be honest. It would have been very TNG’ish.

    Reminds me of MST3k, which to me is almost as bad as this. Perhaps equal.

    No, the problem wasn’t that the Baku were unknown. The problem was that they were arrogant pricks who seems to not deserve having their sorry asses saved. Also the movie heavily implied that Picard just wanted to get his dick wet inside some sweet sweet Anji pussy, and that was the sole reason he was doing what he did.

    I would say Khan worked because Ricardo Montalban played him so deliciously over the top, like a must ache twirling villain, but with some pathos to the character. He made you feel Khan’s anger at what he believed Kirk had done to him. Shinzon is just a whiny brat that seems to small for the shoes he’s trying to fill.

    I hated both deaths, and feel they were completely unnecessary.

    I believe us that loved the character of Data could give less of a fuck if he looked older. If they wanted to they could just write a throwaway line to explain it (something like he wants to “age” along with his friends, fuck, almost anything works)

    Fuck you to all of you who are “ok” with Data’s death. That was the worst part of the movie, and the one thing I can’t forgive.

    What makes it worse is how he goes from geriatric old coot, incapable of punching another old coot, to Space Rambo in First Contact. Would have been awesome if they tied that together somehow.

    Damn right!!!

    What’s with character deaths anyway? Aren’t people getting tired of that old trope? Everytime they want to wring “emotion” out of a character, they kill him off in a “noble” sacrifice.

    I laughed because I pictured that conversation in my mind! Even though TOS did have such an event in the episode “Mirror Mirror” . A sneaky but effective way to write an evil twin story, as opposed to the shit we got with NEM


    THIS is why to me the whole “B4 is Data” argument is made invalid.

    Really?

    So Data has to sacrifice himself to become human. What a load of shit!! Even if you were right, the movie could have written it so Data survives, and his sacrifice was still worthy.

    You kill Data again, so your idea is nullified.

    Hah hah! wow! They would have never had the balls to go along with that idea, but I love it! The clone redeeming himself at the end! Maybe rat bastard Picard could have been rehabilitated also?

    TFF is only the worst movie compared to the other TOS movies, and even though, it’s not that bad if you enjoy it for what it is and what it wanted to say.

    TFF is 10 times better than even First Contact IMO. It completely blows away every other TNG movie.

    I’m going to guess that the poster meant that in nuTrek, Kirk, Spock and McCoy all look like young pretty boys who are well groomed and seem to take care of themselves physically, as to look handsome to women (and gay men).

    At least original Kirk was pretty much the same in the TOS era. Spock and McCoy maybe not so much.
     
  3. Smellmet

    Smellmet Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    'TFF is 10 times better than even First Contact IMO. It completely blows away every other TNG movie.'

    You lost me right there. Bar the big 3 scenes at the start, TFF is an absolute embarrassment of a movie.

    Even the likes of Insurrection - whilst near the bottom of the pile, is still a competently made slick looking movie with nowhere near the problems of TFF
     
  4. GalaxyX

    GalaxyX Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'll admit that TFF had some huge issues, but the movie had its heart in the right place. I think it was the most TOS like movie out of all the TOS movies.

    Generations was probably the most TNG like movie, but the problem was that it had no heart. It was just a derivative "crazy villain" story, and to add insult to injury, they kill off the most iconic character in all of Trek. Why why why???? Would you permanently kill Superman in a Justice League movie? I wonder if people would be saying it's "ok" if that were to be filmed.

    As far as TFF vs FC, I don't know. I admit FC did have some heart, but that most mostly due to Frakes's and James Cromwell's acting ability (in this case, the ability to play off serious material as comic. Usually a hindrance, but in this case a benefit due to the more serious Borg infestation aboard the ship).

    FC was an accidental success IMO. TFF was a failure, but a fun one to watch. I always get a kick of watching TFF, and it's probably my favourite TOS movie.

    You cannot put INS anywhere near it. That was just a clusterfuck of epic proportions. I don't even know where to begin!?
     
  5. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Commodore Commodore

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    All of their scenes were great--and played well on how long they have been inseparable. Moreover, Kirk's "I need my pain!" scene was ST gold, as longtime fans know exaclty what Kirk was referring to, and how that shaped his behavior across TOS, and in TWOK/TSFS.

    Further, the heart of the story is classic ST--Kirk and his best friends are all painted as spiritual men, but their lives as explorers--wanting to know more is a rational motive for putting up with Sybok's quest. In the end, they already know the answer (Spock's brother mistakenly thinking he could find a location like some random town), but their faith--Kirk in particular--is tied to their explorer's gene.

    Insurrection was pure garbage. The new age characters (unfortunately nothing new to the Berman end of the franchise), pointless, weak villains, and a plot that made the most boring of TNG episodes seem like grand theater.
     
  6. Smellmet

    Smellmet Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    You make some good points, but as soon as Kirk gets on the Enterprise in TFF, it's all over for me - odd scene and score aside, the execution of the movie is appalling, it's the only Trek film I've turned off half way through and put another one on. And I am a massive TOS movie fan...
     
  7. Timby

    Timby LIKE LIGHTNIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING Administrator

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    Hardy is a recovering alcoholic and crack addict.

    What the fuck. [​IMG]
     
  8. GalaxyX

    GalaxyX Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Couldn't have said it better myself. I loved the scene where Kirk contemplates the plate "To boldly go".

    Insurrection's biggest weakness is that it tried to get us to like a group of people that are very unlikeable. Never once did I root for the "Ba'ku" since they come across as arrogant assholes. Rewriting the Ba'ku to be more likeable probably would have singlehandedly saved the movie, even if the rest of it stayed intact.


    The only things I think I didn't like were:

    1. The lower budget, which reflected in the special FX and quality of the sets. - Not necessarily a deal breaker to make a good story.

    2. The weak secondary villain (A rogue Klingon)

    3. Scotty's "I know this ship like the back of my hand". At least they were consistent in showing the results of his mistake instead of forgetting about it.

    4. The Uhura fan dance. What were they thinking?


    I have other nitpicks, but they are minor ones I can forgive due to Paramount being a bunch of cheap fuckers.

    Who in Hollywood isn't a recovering crack addict.

    And the Valeris this was meant as a joke, ;) lighten up a bit!
     
  9. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    TFF is embarrassing when tries to be funny (potty humor, Scotty hitting his head). "Insurrection" is embarrassing when it tries to be serious (Ru'ofo's scream, Picard's groan-inducing line, "I'm not begging for my life, I'm begging for yours.")
     
  10. Timby

    Timby LIKE LIGHTNIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING Administrator

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    Hardy spent nearly a decade in serious trouble before he made the decision to get treatment. It caused the end of his first marriage and he will likely face some unpleasant health issues in a decade or two.

    Stay classy, GalaxyX.
     
  11. USS Firefly

    USS Firefly Commander Red Shirt

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    Thet should have used Commander Tomalak, I loved Andreas Katsulas in TNG.
     
  12. GalaxyX

    GalaxyX Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I can't feel sorry for people that make millions of dollars and decide to waste all that money on drugs.

    I could retire on half that much, and these guys make this kind of money on a yearly basis.

    Nope, sorry, my basket ran out of fucks to give.
     
  13. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    lots of people outside of Hollywood have drug problems. How do you feel about people who don't make millions of dollars but still waste what little they have on drugs? Is it the drugs or the money that bothers you?
     
  14. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    And Hardy had those problems before he had millions of dollars.
     
  15. Timby

    Timby LIKE LIGHTNIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING Administrator

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    Fun fact: No one wakes up one morning and says to themself, "Self, I'd like to be an alcoholic and a drug addict today."
     
  16. Khan 2.0

    Khan 2.0 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    earth...but when?...spock?
  17. RAMA

    RAMA Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Ive come to one main conclusion: Insurrection killed off future buzz for STNG movies. There was a good ad campaign, the cinemascore was fine from people who went ro see it, but the tv and film franchise was faltering somewhat in the eyes the general public and non-trekkie fans.
     
  18. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    From the article:
    You know what's really sad is that the entire cast of all the films were -- and I really believe this -- genuinely ready to carry a major motion picture. Everyone from the main cast to the supporting cast to the FX and makeup guys, all the post-production crew, were ready to make some impressive movies. The ones who weren't ready were the writers. They sunk everyone else who was ready and put their all into it. It was they -- Moore and Braga, Piller and Logan -- not any of the cast, who were out of their depths, and the reputation of the TNG cast -- who could have done just as well as the TOS cast -- now has to suffer.

    If after four years the only thing you can come up with is an evil twin story, you genuinely have nothing to say as an artist.
     
  19. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

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    I disagree. The entire TNG movie franchise felt like episodes. From the way they were written to the way they were directed to the sets looking really cheap.

    From interviews, Braga and Moore (I'm not a fan of either one) said they were handed a checklist of things they needed to accomplish in Star Trek: Generations. With the studio being very hands on during the entire process. Having the top dictate how a movie is written is usually a recipe for disaster.
     
  20. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    Despite all the flak Rick Berman gets as keeper of the franchise, there were still people above him with their own ideas of what Star Trek should be.
     

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