Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Mr Light, Jan 3, 2014.

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Nemesis

  1. Excellent

    3 vote(s)
    1.6%
  2. Good

    31 vote(s)
    16.5%
  3. Average

    49 vote(s)
    26.1%
  4. Bad

    49 vote(s)
    26.1%
  5. Terrible

    56 vote(s)
    29.8%
  1. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    Shinzon's personal reason for destroying Earth is part of his obsession with Picard and the privileged life he led. It makes sense in a mentally ill kind of way - and Shinzon was most definitely mentally ill.

    It was also part of his deal with the Romulan military, to ensure their cooperation with the coup.
     
  2. HaventGotALife

    HaventGotALife Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I think he's borderline. Just a guess.
     
  3. Armored Saint

    Armored Saint Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I think the Romulan army is always ready to make a coup d'√Čtat to get rid of a boring Praetor or a dangerous Praetor. The problem with Shinzon? His dangerousness was easily predictable, he had well-known reasons to be insane and a major Romulan hater.
     
  4. Smellmet

    Smellmet Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Exactly - they may be enemies but that didn't stop them being in cahoots with each other for their mutual benefit (CIA and Mr Laden anyone?)

    I agree the film doesn't make this totally clear and muddies the water somewhat, but I've only really picked up on this upon reading this forum a full twelve years after seeing the movie on the big screen, granted forums like this are for precisely this purpose - picking apart the TV show/films that we are all fans of, but I still regard Shinzon's unclear motives as a minor nitpick of the movie rather than something that completely spoils my enjoyment of it.

    I think the movie's bigger problems lie in the casting of Shinzon at all, rather than a Romulan commander as someone suggested earlier, the Remans, the whole B4 subplot and the buggy scene - all of which could have been simplified and tightened the film up somewhat.
     
  5. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    But that's not borne out in the movie. As I said before, Shinzon seems not to care at all about what his Romulan lackeys want until he starts to die. Then all of a sudden for some inexplicable reason, he decides to attack Earth. If he was just doing it to hurt Picard, he certainly didn't make that at all clear. It seemed more like he was just doing it because he finally bowed to the Romulans' pressure, which also makes no sense (see next).

    Again, if he knew he was about to die, why bother keeping his deal?
     
  6. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Clean Old Mod Moderator

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    Let me reemphasize...the Romulan military turned against him because he wanted to destroy Earth. It's right there in the movie. He's not keeping his part of the deal, he's putting it all at risk in order to attack Earth.
     
  7. The Overlord

    The Overlord Captain Captain

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    But why would he hate Picard, over the Romulans? Picard has done nothing to him, while the Romulans actively ruined his life and I don't think simply killing the Senate leadership would be enough to satisfy his hated of them, after all the military had more to do with the direct enslavement of the Remans on the ground level. The Senate may have made the policy, but it was the military who enforced it on the Remans. Heck why are the Remans going along with this plan of Shinzon's, instead of planning revenge against their oppressors?

    Again I think this would have been a stronger movie, if Shinzon's goal was to destroy Romulus and the Enterprise must fight tooth and nail to save their mortal enemy. I think Shinzon's desire for revenge against those who wronged him, would have for a more interesting debates between Shinzon and Picard, instead of what we got, Picard appealing to Shinzon's human nature and Shinzon rejecting those arguments, because he is a one note, dime store James Bond villain who does evil things for no good reason.
     
  8. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    What's ironic is that the Romulans originally wanted to attack Earth and the Federation in order to conquer it. So...what's the difference between conquering Earth and destroying it if the Romulans still get what they want...a conquered Federation? Why didn't Donatra, Suran and the others just let Shinzon destroy Earth?:confused:

    Because the Remans were just one-dimensional cardboard bad guys with no character development at all. Likewise, Ron Perlman's talents were completely wasted as the Viceroy.
     
  9. urbandefault

    urbandefault Commodore Commodore

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    Apology in advance ...

    Every time I see "Dukhat" my brain reads it as "Duck Hat" ... and I giggle just a little bit.

    Carry on. :)
     
  10. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ^Well, then, I'm glad I brought some humor into your day:p
     
  11. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    Agreed that Ron Pearlman was totally and utterly wasted - I didn't even know it was him until a few months ago!
     
  12. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I watched NEM on TV yesterday.
    I say the 2nd half is better than the first.
    I think its got quite a lot of action and like another thread says it looks beautiful. I think the effects are good.
    I don't know why space is looking green though but heh it looks nice.

    I don't mind the sentimentality of the first half so much its just that I don't consider it well written. All that stuff with B4 just needed a better script or better direction IMO. I just didn't think the B4 jokes to be funny at all.
     
  13. Infern0

    Infern0 Captain Captain

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    I cant explain it any better than redlettermedia did

    it was an ok movie, with a lot of problems
     
  14. Khan 2.0

    Khan 2.0 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    earth...but when?...spock?
    looks like something out of ALIEN ( there wasn't any green in the film but was on the egg poster, maybe they took it from that)
     
  15. Smellmet

    Smellmet Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I kinda like the green stuff in it, it helps to give the film it's own visual identity, but then so did the Matrix films which were out before it...
     
  16. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Clean Old Mod Moderator

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    I was thinking...not only would the movie have been much stronger if Shinzon had been Stewart playing a fully-aged clone, but--and forgive me if somebody has brought this up already--the B4 story could have actually worked if they'd done the reverse, and had another actor playing the role. Instead of yet another Soong android played by Spiner, have it be a not-entirely-successful Romulan prototype (TNG implied that they were trying). It could have made better use of some elements of that storyline...Data taking a disadvantaged android under his wing, trying to help it achieve its full potential...while ditching the too-blatant reset button quality of the character.
     
  17. Smellmet

    Smellmet Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I think that's a decent idea, another example of the wasted opportunity that the film represents (despite my affection for it)
     
  18. Sci Fi Fan

    Sci Fi Fan Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    I agree. Nemesis was a very good movie. And since we'll never have another TNG movie (at least with the original cast) we can only wish there were more like it.
     
  19. sovereign

    sovereign Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Imagine if Star Trek V WAS in fact the last TOS film. Imagine the hate for it from the fans... The thing is, the TOS crew got their sendoff after a "letdown" movie. If Nemesis had occurred in the middle of the TNG movie run instead of the end, I am betting that we wouldn't be so hard on it.
     
  20. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    This!