Why is Nemesis hated so much?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Kuro Pit, Jun 26, 2012.

  1. Romulus Prime

    Romulus Prime Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    IMO, Nemesis is absolutely the worst Trek movie. It's mere existence personally offends me. Finally, the Romulans get center stage...

    ...and are IMMEDIATELY upstaged by the clone - Kid Picard - and his oogly-boogly henchmen, the Nosferatu-looking Remans, NEITHER of which are believable as aspects of the Romulan Empire. The writers basically made the Romulans out as idiots in this film (what Romulan in his right mind would follow a HUMAN clone or even a group of slaves, never mind arming them?) and the TNG cast are about as interesting as background props in a TOS episode.

    Dune buggies
    Another Data
    Young Picard being bald and into married cougars (Troi)
    Dumb bad-guy designs
    Ugly Reman ship
    New Romulan ship looks more like a Klink-Romulan hybrid
    Bad guy wants to destroy earth for NO reason
    Troi mind-rape
    Worf back on the ship for no reason
    Data's sacrifice being moot
    Silly fight/battle scenes


    I'd rather watch STV once a day for the rest of my life than watch Nemesis one more time, all the way through, and that's saying a lot. Now lemme tell you how I really feel...

    :klingon:
     
  2. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    This is how I feel about Insurrection. :techman:
     
  3. RAMA

    RAMA Admiral Admiral

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    Every once in awhile a poor, innocent, unsuspecting noob enters here and asks that question...opening up that can of worms yet again:lol:


    Nemesis is underrated, but the movie that followed it is the real gem.
     
  4. RAMA

    RAMA Admiral Admiral

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    Wow $2 billion is way off, but through different sources it made about $120 million overall.
     
  5. Romulus Prime

    Romulus Prime Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I can kinda-sorta deal with it, like...once every 3 years? But I fast-forward (my VHS tape XD) through several scenes. Certainly understand why so many people absolutely loath it. It's a very weird Trek movie that effs so much up with regards to both the story's potential and established aspects of the characters, nevermind the fact the "aliens" looked exactly like humans which = lazy shit.

    My personal hatred of Nemesis (which I will never purchase in any form) is mostly because of how it depicted the Romulans. Maybe if Nemesis didn't have Remans or cougar-chasing, I could lump it in with Insurrection in the bin of "horrendous guilty pleasures." Alas, it's got both, and they make my heart and eyes bleed any time I see parts of it...which is basically only on RLM's review(s.) As much as some people despise NuTrek (I don't,) at least Abrams made Romulans the primary adversary AND deadly, not chumps who get bossed around by oogly-boogly slaves and a disintegrating human clone.


    :rommie:
     
  6. Ar-Ghost

    Ar-Ghost Cadet Newbie

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    I don't hate Nemesis. I don't like the story. It could have been done much better but with a director unfamiliar with TNG, what did you expect?
     
  7. Joker

    Joker Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Lack of familiarity with TNG had nothing to do with the failure of Nemesis.
     
  8. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    2 billion world wide? As much as I'd love to believe Trek was globally that popular, I'd like to see a source on that.
     
  9. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    A joke. I don't think it broke one hundred-million worldwide. :techman:
     
  10. Kirk1980

    Kirk1980 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    .....people still were taking the 2 billion seriously?

    When did this forum have a funectomy?!
     
  11. LOKAI of CHERON

    LOKAI of CHERON Commodore Commodore

    Nowhere near! The final worldwide box office gross was $67,312,826

    http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=startrek10.htm
     
  12. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Then the ninety million must've been its production budget. Boy Paramount took a short term bath on that one. :eek:
     
  13. V

    V Commodore Commodore

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    • Some of the plot ideas are retreads of earlier, better Treks, notably 2 and 6.
    • Fundamentally, parts of the story are actually good...on paper. The idea that Picard is having empty nest syndrome at Riker leaving, only to find he has a clone-son, and it really plays into the Arthurian myth of Mordred (Arthur's nemesis is the son his enemies created from him using a spell so he never knew he fathered him).
    • As Burton and Sirtis have *openly* pointed out, the main fault lies with the director; a man who never saw any Trek episode before, prided himself on this, and had no feel for the tone, characters, or themes of the story.
    • Notice that the director cut out plot-heavy scenes to put in more ACTION scenes. *17 minutes of deleted scenes*? and those are only the ones they released. The deleted scenes make it a much better movie, revealing just how insane that director was.
    • Thus, I lay the blame squarely on the director. Some of the basic plot wasn't even a bad idea, not necessarily a direct copy of 2 or 6, but required a better director at the helm to achieve.
    • Its particularly hated because, even going into it, it was hyped as "a generation's final journey" -- this is the Conclusion to the entire Next Generation era, and it horribly fails to live up to this. And this was our one shot at giving these characters a send-off.
     
  14. Silversmok3

    Silversmok3 Commander Red Shirt

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    Watch Star Trek:The Undiscovered Country.

    Then watch Nemesis immediately afterward. If you have a pulse you'll discover the answer to your question.
     
  15. jayrath

    jayrath Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I have one simple observation, and no one can argue against it.

    When I saw NEM on opening day, alone, I became so bored that I did not mind going out to the lobby to get my popcorn refilled.

    That is absolutely true. And I've been a rabid fan since 1969.
     
  16. Irishman

    Irishman Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    +1,000
     
  17. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Because the whole thing...

    [yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnJ0vzBlaUw[/yt]
     
  18. Irishman

    Irishman Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Well, for me it wasn't so much that it was a dune buggy, rather that the aliens there ALSO had dune buggies with similar weaponry.

    Lazy writing.
     
  19. Silversmok3

    Silversmok3 Commander Red Shirt

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    Why is Nemesis Hated so much, you ask?

    Ill prove it. Let the court enter exhibit A:

    "The Schimitar was built at a secret base"

    The Remans are slaves, and a human science experiment turned prisoner somehow gained their trust and overthrew the Romulans guarding their prison. A stretch, but somewhat plausible.Building a spaceship more advanced than the Federation Flagship at the ROMULAN IMPERIAL CAPITAL?

    BULLLLLLLLSHEEEEEIIT. That's like prisoners at Guantanamo Bay constructing a stealth bomber from scratch without the US military finding out.

    Exhibit B:

    The USS Enterprise under Picard's command was not only the Federation's sharpest starship, but with Picard's battle experience facing the Borg, the Romulans, and other assorted interstellar bad guys its also captained by one seasoned skipper. At least, that's what logic would tell us. In Nemesis, one of Starfleet's most decorated captains charts a course through a nebula deep within enemy territory without backup or support. If Reginald Barclay commanded the ship this severe blunder might make sense, but someone with Picard's war record would know better.

    Exhibit C: Shinzon.

    Why isn't he dead? What would be the point in keeping him alive? If the Romulan government thought the strategy which begat his existence would provoke a war , then it would make sense to just kill Shinzon outright. Dead men tell no tales, and Shinzon being alive in a prison represented a future liability for the Romulan government. What if he got out and instead of building secret ships and co-opting the local slaves, petitioned Earth for asylum? Talk about a political scandal. Thus the movie's sorry explaination for his custody by saying "they sent me there to die" makes even less sense. If the entire point of Shinzon's exile to Remus was death, why not put a disruptor to his head and end the matter?

    Exhibit D; Picard as a 70 year old Jack Bauer.

    The scene of Picard beaming over to the damaged Schimitar to shut down the doomsday weapon was pure schlock. Why not beam a phaser into the damn reactor core and have done with it? Assuming that's too much of a bother, it doesn't say much about Starfleet's security corps if out of a crew of hundreds the most combat-capable crewmember is the 61 year old Captain of the ship!

    Exhibit E: Kolarus III

    So, the Enterprises' sensors can detect a positronic signal from millions of miles away, but they missed the hoard of very sunburnt offroaders with machine guns on their rigs?


    Exhibit F: "Praetor" Shinzon?

    Just how did wily Shinzon find time to cut deals with the Romulan military while he was toiling in prison? Yes , he served on the Roumulan side for the Dominion War, but what general is going to disobey his chain of command and entire governing authority to swear loyalty to a PRISONER? If the Romulan military wanted a war with the Federation so bad, they'd just nuke the Senate themselves and call the shots. I also rather doubt that a human would ever run the military of a stratified ,xenophobic, and imperialist society like Romulus.

    Your Honor, the Prosecution Rests.
     
  20. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It is nothing like "prisoners at Guantanamo Bay constructing a stealth bomber from scratch without the US military finding out", Shinzon was a war hero who had built alliances within the Romulan government and military and no one here knows just how deep those alliances ran.

    Except we know from both The Wrath of Khan and The Best of Both Worlds that a nebula can make an excellent short term hiding spot and interferes with both shields and sensors. Since a cloak would represent a type of shield, it's quite possible it wouldn't have worked in the nebula either.

    I think you owe Picard an apology...

    Your overthinking this one. The Romulans never figured a human boy could survive the brutal conditions on Remus.

    Patrick Stewart is the star of the series and takes home the biggest paycheck. The audience goes to see him, not some twenty year old marine no one has ever heard of before. This is just the simple fact where a movie isn't going to match reality in this type of situation.

    Pretty bad abuse of magical technology. Agreed. :techman:

    You'll be surprised who people will willingly follow when they believe things aren't going their way. Hitler anyone?