Why is Nemesis hated so much?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Kuro Pit, Jun 26, 2012.

  1. Satyrquaze

    Satyrquaze Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Nemesis is hated for the same reason that The Final Frontier and NuTrek are also hated. The truth of the matter is that Star Trek fans are damn stubborn bitches. I'm guilty of this myself.

    I love Nemesis and (2009), but loathe the fact that TFF was ever put to film. I have friends on this very site that love TFF and would not tolerate a single second of NuTrek ever again.
     
  2. Squiggy

    Squiggy FrozenToad Admiral

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    I have this saved on my computer so whenever this gets asked I can copy pasta:

    A: The bad guy was "an evil twin". Christ. Just tie Deanna up to some railroad tracks as you laugh evilly while you twist your mustache.

    B: The friends of the bad guy were not nice to look at. They look like aborted clones drizzled in maple syrup. Too obvious.

    C: More convenient Enterprise placement.
    "Oh, we just happen to be the closest ship to this planet with the Retard Data...which just happens to get us 'dangerously close' to the Neutral Zone." How many times were "dangerously close" and "Neutral Zone" used in the same sentence in the span of TNG?

    D: Fanboy Enterprise. Fanboy Scimitar. 19,246 Quantum Torpedo tubes vs 492,399 disruptor cannons! Oh, it can fire when cloaked? So we can't use our massive arsenal? Fuck it! RAM 'EM! And Deanna crashed another Enterprise.

    E: So far...the only Trek movie to feature text messaging...for two people sitting 4 feet from each other.

    F: So far...only Trek movie to feature a dune buggy and of road racin'! Get 'er done!

    G-P: The last 5 minutes are thrown together. Sub bitches about this

    1. Picard hits gross alien in the face with a phaser rifle, why he didn't fire, I don't know.
    2. When he hit the guy...the futuristic metallic-alloy gun just...breaks.
    3. The evil twin was melting in a manner akin to the Wicked Witch of the West, not a threat anymore.
    4. Data jumps from ship to ship (about 5-10 miles) and just barely catches a convenient thingy sticking out, and sneaks in an even more convenient access hatch located exactly where he needed it to be (it was also unlocked)
    5. Picard, just stands there as the Technobabble Radiation builds, seemingly dooming his entire crew. If he wasn't going to do anything, why the fuck did he beam over there in the first place?
    6. Data shows up at the last second, beams Picard back...says "goodbye" and instead of deactivating the beam, learning God knows how much about the ship, he just shoots his phaser into it.
    7. Data dies.
    8. Deanna cries.
    9. Will finally gets promoted and leaves.

    Q: Where's Q? He'd make a much better villain than "Evil Romulan Picard"

    R: The Romulan Senate is gone. Do we hear anything from the Romulans? No. I guess they're all ok with it.

    S: Main cast singing...because he can, no other reason.

    T: A hole was blown in the bridge. A HOLE WAS BLOWN IN THE BRIDGE, and only one person got sucked out. No one burned. Sorta a 'meh' hole. Didn't seem to want to do alot of damage.

    U: At the end, it leaves it WIDE-FUCKING-OPEN for a follow up...something...like Data's memory techobabble made it to Retard Data. Will we see it? Nope.

    V: New Warbirds, don't look as good as the old Warbirds, and they sorta suck at fighting. You'd think they'd know something about fighting a cloaked ship. But no. Nada. Useless and more fanboy "OH THIS IS TEH KEWL" bs.

    W: Worf...again, found his way back, and pitched down to make him seem more alien. Yeah, thanks. Lets make the guy who has been on screen the most in all of Trek, and change him to make him more different. Like the ass on his head wasn't enough.

    X: Regarding the above mentioned dune buggy frivolities. I guess they seemed to casually forget that they violated about 15 parts of the Prime Directive (showing themselves to pre warp civilization, shooting at them)…all because they wanted to find another brother for Data

    Y: And speaking of another Data brother? Why? That last one seemed to be not worth the trouble of putting him back together…and OHHHHH NOOOO! This one is out to hurt us too…but in a naive 3 year old sticking a fork in an outlet sorta way.

    Z: We’re forced to live with it as a finale of a series that many of us grew to love. If that’s it, make us be glad its over. Don’t tease us with open-ended plot holes. Riker on the Titan? Never gonna see it. B4 becoming Data…never gonna see it. Enterprise E? Never gonna see that ever again because half the crew is gone. Yet another Picard and Data wank-fest that left a bad taste in everyone’s mouth.

    Now, would it suck as much if it wasn’t the last one? Eh, I dunno…none of us will ever know as we’re not going to be given a proper send off for TNG.

    16 years, and that’s what Paramount gives us.

    Thanks. Why don’t you just kick my dog while you’re at it?

    That...in a nutshell, is why it sucks. Now...someone stick this thread to the top of the board so it won't get asked every other week.
     
  3. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The world according to you. Even though I agree with you, it's pretty arrogant to just say "This is how it is, stop asking."

    If threads about this movie annoy you so much, you can make them go away forever by never clicking on them.
     
  4. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Captain Captain

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    It's a forum that only discusses 20 hours' worth of material released 10-33 years ago. What do you expect? Rhetorical question.

    I'm actually amazed the ST XI+ forum goes as strong as it does with as little material as it has to work with.
     
  5. JRS

    JRS Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Changing the voice of Bairds idea I believe( Baird also had Picards Mintakan tapestry removed from his ready room, just because he could..)
    Worf was indeed alien enough for us already.
    Plus they totally ignored the events of DS9..and his character development.
    I know that some of the producers were trying to explain this by saying that "Maybe Worf got bored of being ambassador" or the most likely but unspoken "Nobody watched DS9 anyway":borg:
     
  6. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Worf's treatment in the movies was hit and miss. In First Contact it was beautiful how they worked him in, the Defiant fighting the Borg Cube and being rescued by the Enterprise. Only wish O'brien could have been along too. Barclay and the EMH got cameos.

    In Insurrection they at least tried to give an excuse. Yeah.. okay Worf's on leave... so he's over here working. Sure. Then again Sisko has been known to kick people of DS9 literally when they have leave time, and Worf usually is a glutton for work.

    In Nemesis they don't even try to. A few lines like "It's good to have you back in Starfleet, Worf" would have done it too. And really.. the end there? Okay Data's dead(another topic entirely). Why did they bring in some random guy to be first officer... you have Worf there... in command red! Sure Sisko read Worf the riot act when he abandoned a mission to save Dax saying it probably ended his career advancement, but I'm quite sure Picard could pull a string there and would have no problem doing so since he trusts Worf and the position is open.

    Sometimes I honestly just think Paramount would be well served hiring a "fan consultant" to proof-read scripts for glaringly obvious errors.
     
  7. cbspock

    cbspock Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The movie plot was arbitrary. Why not connect a Romulan movie back into the series, like use Tomalok, and maybe have the excuse that the Enterprise is delivering Admiral Jarak's message to his family now that there is a peace between the Federation and the Romulan Empire due to the Dominion War. Using this set up would sort of parallel Star Trek 6 with the Klingons. Then they could have some rogue Romulan element wanting to take the Federation out while it is still recovering from the Dominion War.

    -Chris
     
  8. T'Preea

    T'Preea Commander Red Shirt

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    I liked Nemesis, but I was disappointed with all the open-ended sub-plots that we are never going to see. Personally, I think they were just running out of ideas by then. Who knows.
     
  9. Jeyl

    Jeyl Commodore Commodore

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    I do. Patrick Stewart had a high $ value on his head and everyone believed that if the film didn't make him the focus of everything with a little sprinkle of Data, that the film would be a disaster and kill the franchise. So they tacked on a Picard clone plot to make it more Picard focused and threw in another copy of Data. To make the movie even more guaranteed to succeed, the film makers also indulged Patrick Stewart by giving him a car chase in the desert. Patrick loves driving.

    Star Trek Nemesis went on to gross 2 billion dollars at the box office and Star Trek now surpasses Star Wars as the most successful and well known franchises in the world.
     
  10. PopBoy

    PopBoy Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Bit of an hot mess really. I think i am one of a few who didnt always leap for joy when it was clearly going to be a Picard or Data episode - so as the movie is pretty much all about them I was never going to like the film.
     
  11. PopBoy

    PopBoy Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Can i add that the story.....was actually quite good. One of those "great on paper" movies.
     
  12. DWF

    DWF Admiral Admiral

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    I enjoy it wheneve I rewatch it, the movie might niot be perfect but it was nice to for the last time to catch up with the TNG crew.
     
  13. T'Preea

    T'Preea Commander Red Shirt

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    I'm not saying I won't give credit where credit is due. I give handfuls of kudos to the action sequence writers (Brent Spiner for one); but as for the story line, it was severely lacking in parts.
     
  14. LitmusDragon

    LitmusDragon Commodore Commodore

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    I watched it again recently and I think there are little flashes of greatness in it. You could probably make a good 45 minute episode out of all the best parts.

    Cut the dunebuggy scene first. :shifty:
     
  15. Sulu

    Sulu Ensign

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    I think the whole cast and crew were feeling a little over reliant on egg soup ( a practice they picked up from the Shatner.) Egg soup is a serious depressant if taken in too big a dose. This contributed to the poor quality of the screenwriting and performances, resulting in a rather weak effort.
     
  16. Cyke101

    Cyke101 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Star Trek Nemesis, or all Star Trek movies combined? I ask because the last time I checked, Nemesis made over $43 million domestically, combined total of $67 million worldwide, a far cry from $2 billion :)
     
  17. MrJ

    MrJ Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Clearly he meant Nemesis on it's own. I don't care about the $43 million domestic Nemesis made. What matters is the $2 billion world wide Nemesis made in it's original theatrical run. Nemesis was the greatest film achievement of all time, and it's box office tally reflects that. Every decision the film makers made in that film were absolutely correct. But Nemesis's lasting legacy was it's sequels. Just as Wrath of Khan, Search for Spock and Voyage Home are often referred to as the "Genesis Trilogy" Nemesis and it's sequels are often called the "Exodus Trilogy".

     
    Another incredibly feat achieved by Berman, Barid, and Logan, was the almost Lord of the Rings like way each movie in the Exodus trilogy surpassed it's predecessor. As we all know, Nemesis (2002) made $2 billion, it's sequel The Search for Data (2004) grossed $2.5 billion and the final Star Trek XII So Very Tired (2006) made an absolutely unbelievable $3 Billion.
     

    As perfect as Nemesis was, each movie after it was even more perfect-er. My only complaint was the 1 hour and 5 minute sequence in The Search for Data where Picard, Worf and B4 drive the Argo around an arctic planet looking for Data's scattered pieces while shooting the local inhabitants. After he landed on it after he got blown up on the Scimitar. As cool as that sequence was I think it could have been shortened to about 45 minutes. But I appreciate the subtle way they brought Data back, just like they found B4 in pieces driving on a desert planet. They found Data in pieces driving on a arctic planet. Like George Lucas would say "it's like poetry it rhymes."
     

    The only bad thing that happened was due to the massive success by the "Exodus Trilogy" Rick Berman achieved so much acclaim he ascended to higher plain of existence where he now lives as a state of pure energy as an almost Q-God like super being. Which meant that someone had to take over the Star Trek franchise. So J.J. Abrams took over and his only attempt at a Star Trek film was a complete failure. It was widely panned by critics and made by far the least amount of any Star Trek movie at the box office. But because Berman, the film making god he literally is, is unavailable, what with being a god and all. And Sturat Barid, after his success with three Star Trek movies realized he would never achieve that level of success again, retired from Directing. J.J. Abrams is all that’s available for the next movie.


    I only hope J.J. doesn’t completely ruin the Trek franchise and make everyone forget the record breaking success the last three TNG films had.
     
  18. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Captain Captain

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    ^ I completely agree with you.

    The fifth and sixth TNG movies are so perfect that not only are they beyond criticism but words fail to do justice how stellar those two installments truly are.

    This is the reason I think they're seldom discussed on TrekBBS. They're just films that have to be experienced. There's no description. No comparison.
     
  19. Silvercrest

    Silvercrest Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    And you know what else? If Picard & Co. had waited an extra week to arrive, the threat would have been over. :rommie:


    Anyway, you're supposed to knock a critic for not knowing the material. You don't knock him for knowing it.

    "Hire"? You think it would be necessary to pay money? :p


    I had no idea spambots were so advanced these days.
     
  20. Cyke101

    Cyke101 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Wellp, know when to hold 'em, and know when to fold 'em. You've convinced me, and I stand corrected!