Why is Nemesis hated so much?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Kuro Pit, Jun 26, 2012.

  1. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Seriously? Remove the chip from your shoulder and take the comment at face value, just a jibe at the inconsistency of the movie as a whole. Odd you pick that one line out of my whole post to respond to.
     
  2. inflatabledalek

    inflatabledalek Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Whilst the bald Picard thing is only a small detail, I do think it does sum up perfectly a lot of the overall flaws with the film. There's a clear assumption the audience is too stupid to get that Picard is looking at a picture of himself as a teen unless he's bald. Plus it contradicts the earlier lines about how Shinzon doesn't look exactly like him because of all the beatings...

    The script is a big problem, but it might not have been a fatal one. I would argue that the scripts of First Contact and the '09 film are just as full of stupidity and silly nonsense moments. But they're directed and performed with verve and omph they get away with it, both films effectively grab the viewer by the scruff of the neck, stare them in the eyes and dare them to point out plot holes.

    If Nemesis had been given a director who was at least interested in doing a Trek film even if he wasn't a fan it might have still pulled it off. But there's a tired, languid feeling to the whole thing. And unlike the TOS films there's no real taking into account of their aging (Kirk got into surprisingly few fist fights in the films and those he did would usually see him either outclassed- he only wins against Kurge because the planet is exploding around them- or played for laughs- Kirk Vs. Kirk. Compare that to fat Riker trying to look threatening to Ron Pearlman or Picard single handedly killing a bridge full of monsters).

    I've seen the last six films at the cinema and- though some have gone down in my esteem in the years since (alas poor Generations, time has been a cruel mistress)- Nemesis is the only one I thought was bobbins as I was watching it at the time.
     
  3. Shazam!

    Shazam! Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    A little kid stealing a car and then driving off a cliff and then flying out at the last second like fucking Superman and then grabbing hold of a ledge and then climbing back up is more believable than a grown man messing around in a dune buggy?
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2012
  4. LOKAI of CHERON

    LOKAI of CHERON Commodore Commodore

    Patrick Stewart was 61 when he shot this movie.
     
  5. inflatabledalek

    inflatabledalek Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    But Picard is supposed to be in his 70's at this point isn't he? Even if Stewart is younger.
     
  6. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Admittedly non-canon, but his birthdate is given as 2305. Which would've made him 58 or 59 in Encounter at Farpoint, so the character may have been older than 70 in Nemesis.
     
  7. Captaindemotion

    Captaindemotion Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It made me laugh.
     
  8. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Captain Captain

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    Picard was in the Class of '27 at the Academy, as mentioned in "The First Duty" and "Tapestry". Q said Picard was 21 after he graduated from the Academy, so that would be 2306. If Picard didn't have his birthday yet, then he would've turned 22 in 2327, making his date of birth 2305.

    Even without Q mentioning how old Picard was, 22 sounds like a reasonable age to have graduated from the Academy.

    So, yeah, Picard was 74 in Nemesis; which would be more like upper-middle-age in the 24th Century.
     
  9. Cyke101

    Cyke101 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Man, I want to make a film like that some day...
     
  10. The Grim Ghost

    The Grim Ghost Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Yeah I never got the fuss over this either. Having your head shaved is an acceptable style today, there is no reason it wouldn't be in the future as well. I've known many people who have done it over the years for varying reasons, including a plain like for the style.

    So he shaved his head when he was younger, then grew it back a few years later...then he went bald. Big deal!
     
  11. Utopianvista

    Utopianvista Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I would rather watch Nemesis 100 times in 100 days than ever have to be subjected to that Abrams abomination again.

    Can't wait till everyone hates the sequel like they hated Bayformers 2 and realized they had been had by shining objects in the first train wreck.

    Nemesis was just a flawed film in every way imaginable. The TNG movies just weren't good movies. They didn't feel like TNG. The E-E never clicked and felt like a ship Picard, of the TNG tv show, would command. It lost it's soul. Perhaps TNG just wasn't suited for the Big Screen?

    Generations is still the "best" of the TNG movies but then quickly falls apart when they hit the Nexus plot. Killing Picard's nephew was just stupid as well.
     
  12. Orac Zen

    Orac Zen Mischief Manager Super Moderator

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    Why? The passage of time has done nothing whatsoever to mitigate the movie's countless flaws, so it's not unreasonable that people continue to dislike it (I wouldn't describe my own disdain for Nemesis as "hate" - that's far too extreme a word to apply to something as trivial as a movie).

    Anyway, my reasons for disliking Nemesis are contained in the following post from one of the countless previous threads on the subject:
    Throw in Shinzon's utterly ridiculous "motive" - whatever it was supposed to be - and you have, IMO at least, a terrible movie. I do not "hate" it, but neither do I have any desire whatever to ever see it again. To each their own.
     
  13. Blip

    Blip Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Ignoring the questionable issue over hair for a moment: The uniform that Picard is wearing in that photo is for enlisted servicemen. Not for officers-in-training. It isn't even for an enlisted trainee - the collar is black instead of the correct red.

    Apart from that, I agree with just about every other issue raised about this film (and have a few of my own...) Overall I even liked Insurrection better, insofar as the quality of the directing, editing, acting, and heck even the script!

    What I actually did like about NEM was a much shorter list:

    The score by Goldsmith had a few nice callbacks to TMP, which is arguably one of the best he ever composed.

    The bridge was a little improved in terms of the colour scheme (the LCARS in particular after they got rid of those weird orange and purple overtones).

    The Valdore (despite the crap name) was a nice looking ship, and it meant we had something new for the Romulans... finally!
     
  14. MarsWeeps

    MarsWeeps Captain Premium Member

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    Nemesis was the only Trek movie that I did not watch more than once. How convenient to find yet another android brother for Data and nobody even mentioned Lore in the film, it was if he never existed.

    For me, the movie just didn't flow very well.

    Short version: It sucked.
     
  15. EEE

    EEE Captain Captain

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    It wasn't too long ago, that if a white man shaved his head, people would whisper "how long does he have?"
     
  16. FreddyE

    FreddyE Captain Captain

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    I saw Nemesis on opening night as part of a quadruple feature. Generations, First Contact, Insurrection, Nemesis. I loved Generations after having seen it dozens of times at home, same for First Contact and Insurrection. But I really hated Nemesis. Shinzon was NOT believable as a Picard clone at all, then the whole "uuups...there is another soong android who by the way has the mental capacity of a banana", mind-rape, troi crashing the ship again, data dying, oh and if you go on and on about the Rikers leaving for the Titan...at least show us the effing ship! I bought the VHS for 5 bucks back then in a moment of completeism....I never watched it even once.
     
  17. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Actually Picard telling Troi to take the helm after he resolved to ram Shinzon's ship was one of the best moments of the movie. ;)
     
  18. FreddyE

    FreddyE Captain Captain

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    Hmm...if you see it that way.....its actually funny. As if he thought "At least she wont miss!" ;-)
     
  19. Joker

    Joker Vice Admiral Admiral

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    There's nothing remarkable about being able to explain why you didn't like something, particularly if it was at the time something you were really looking forward to liking.
     
  20. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Actually it's a human trait. People will remember things they didn't like far more vividly and clearly than things they did. It works with many things like losing streaks, financial troubles, etc.

    But yes, nice that everyone who has a different opinion than you is a "hater." Guess being judgmental is another human trait eh?