Why is Nemesis hated so much?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Kuro Pit, Jun 26, 2012.

  1. ILOVETREK1701

    ILOVETREK1701 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2012
    Location:
    Ki Baratan (Romulan capital)
    I think yeah there were errors and poor choices but it is still a good move and above all els it's STAR TREKso you almost have to love it.
     
  2. Xhiandra

    Xhiandra Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2012
    I'm not going to go at length about it again (see the "hypotheticals" thread), but I like it as well.
    I wouldn't say it's the best TNG movie, that's First Contact, but it's not bad.

    I'd rank the Trek movies:

    1. First Contact - it had everything, drama, humour, action, character developpment, overall hopeful outlook towards the future,...
    2. The Undiscovered Country - best writing quality in the ToS movies.
    3. The Wrath of Khan - most rank it first, I know. It's good, but I just can't see what's so special about it.
    4. Nemesis - has flaws, but stil enjoyable.
    5. The Search for Spock - interesting theme but boring execution.
    6. The Motion Picture - so infuriatingly slow-paced. Makes the ending of 2001: A Space Odyssey look positively hectic.
    7. Generations - can a plot be any more shoe-horned? "we want Kirk to personally hand the torch to Picard, let's get an excuse for that!" It's a fan indulgence, but a completely unnecessary one.
    8. The Final Frontier - some good dialogues, but overall a mess. And those special effects... that was Jaws 4 in space, maybe even worse! (not really, the Jaws 4 shark has to be the worst special effect in the last 50 years of Hollywood)
    9. Insurrection - I liked Picard's love interest, but everything else about this movie was just silly and the plot made little sense. A huge mess.
    10. The Voyage Home - written by some fanfic-writer's feet, this is a movie that lowers your IQ, a crime for a any movie, doubly so for a Trek movie. A couple of chuckles don't make up for the sheer idiocy of the script, sorry.
    11. JJ Abrams' Star Wa... Trek - nameless abomination.
     
  3. Crisp Crinkle

    Crisp Crinkle Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2011
    Location:
    Gene's office
    When I was sitting in the theater on opening night watching Nemesis, I had no doubt that the film would bomb, that the Star Trek movie franchise was over, and that I would be glad to see it go*.

    The RLM review posted upthread by MANT! echoes a lot of my thoughts. The film was self-indulgent, uninteresting, pointless, but worst of all unpleasant, and therefore ill-suited even for popcorn escapism.

    Contrast this with the other turkey of the film series, STV. Yes, STV was embarrassingly awful, but at least it was sorta fun, and it certainly wasn't viscerally in bad taste. And after watching STV in the theater, I only felt as if the movie franchise were teetering on the edge, rather than getting flushed down the toilet.

    To boot, STV was an anomalous low point after a generally well-regarded high point in TVH. NEM on the other hand was just the decisively sudden conclusion of a downward spiral of irrelevancy, begun by INS, and crashing into the ground.

    -

    * - At that time, I hadn't yet considered the possibility that TPTB would boldly go to recast Kirk and Spock, while I could still get around under my own power.
     
  4. Trekkie2

    Trekkie2 Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2010
    Location:
    Same place, different universe
    I for one, liked Nemesis, but I did not care for the rape scene.
     
  5. JRS

    JRS Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2003
    Location:
    Czech Republic
    Yes..the rape scene.
    The character of Troi was not treated very well in this movie.
    She was there just to get married, raped..then later cried about twice, was angry..and crashed a ship.
    She does not really come as an strong and independent woman, who's past experiences in the TNG series itself, should have prepared her to shrug of the mind rape stuff rather quickly:vulcan:
    ( she was possessed by aliens twice, captured by Romulans, helped Picard after the Borg incident, lost her telepathic powers, was mind raped, entered her mothers mind and so on..)

    In fact all the characters in NEM seem to forget pretty much all of the stuff that had happened to them over the years, plus most of the crew gets nothing decent to do in the whole movie.Ignoring the past events of the TNG is one of the biggest fails of the film,
    And does not help that they indeed edited out almost all of the character based stuff,
    that actually was pretty good..and would have made the film better:confused:

    I do place much of blame towards the director also.
    Baird did not know Star Trek, did not care about it..nor he bothered to do much of research at all( He should have watched all of TNG, IMHO).
    I wish Jonathan Frakes would have directed this one, he such a did good job on First Contact.

    There are other negative points I could make about Nemesis..but I have told them so many times and I do not really feel like repeating them right now.
     
  6. Mage

    Mage Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2007
    I agree. Some of the people's complaints I can understand, even if I don't agree with them. But others....

    Fans can find the weirdest reasons to dislike what they love. So yeah, for some it will be very hard to be pleased by anything.
    But you know what I find REALLY FUNNY? How the haters seem to be able to explain in detail the scenes they didn't like. Now, if I hate a movie, I can't remember every little detail. So that must mean that even though they don't like it, they keep on watching it. I don't get that.
     
  7. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    England
    Starfleet Academy is a four year course, right? We saw Picard with hair after he graduated and was awaiting assignment in "Tapestry". He was in the usual maroon dress uniform of the era.

    The pic in Nemesis shows Picard in the cadet jumpsuit, giving up to FOUR YEARS for the guy to grow his hair back after having shaved it off.

    In a similar real-life story, I used to shave my head but I don't anymore. This complaint probably is the most pathetic and stupid one in ALL of Star Trek.

    Heck, even taken as a simple rewrite, making Picard bald at the age Patrick Stewart was (19), it really doesn't matter. Certainly not worth the fuss made here and in other threads.
     
  8. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2005
    Location:
    Los Angeles, California
    I think the complaints stem, in part, from the fact that a leaked version of the script described young Picard as having hair like he did in "Tapestry." When this was changed in the movie, some people interpreted it as the powers that be assuming their audience would be too stupid to realize that a character who once had hair was now bald.

    It's really the least of the film's many problems, though, but something easy to nitpick.
     
  9. Crom!

    Crom! Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2004
    Location:
    Roshi
    Fuck that! Star Trek '09 accomplished the double feat of rejuvenating the franchise AND getting rid of the anal retentive fanbois.

    YMMV of course...
     
  10. Cap'n Claus

    Cap'n Claus Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2002
    Location:
    ssosmcin
    I always liked Nemesis. I liked it on opening night and I still do. I think it's a fun flick.

    Seriously? With all of the men who shave their heads, all over the world, you really still think it means "skinhead"? It's a popular stylistic choice. The character could have done it for any number of reasons.
     
  11. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    :techman:

    As my hair line has continued to recede at warp speed, I've contemplated just shaving it all off.
     
  12. Jeyl

    Jeyl Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2009
    Location:
    Asheville, NC
    Why is Nemesis hated so much?

    Because it ignores my favorite character moments from when they were on TV. Picard's artificial heart and how he got it would have made for quite the persuasive argument against Shinzon always blabbering on about the two of them being the same. Except nobody remembered that moment or chose to leave it out because they thought what they already had was brilliant enough.
     
  13. MrJ

    MrJ Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2011
    Location:
    Canada
    Actually, the pic in Nemesis shows Picard in an Enlisted Uniform. Starfleet cadets of that era wore the standard officer jackets with red turtle necks. Enlisted Men and NCOs wore the jumpsuit that "Picard" was shown wearing in the picture in Nemesis. Yet one more thing the film makers of Nemesis fucked up.

    That is exactly what happened. I don't remember if it was Berman or Baird, or both, but someone thought that the audience would be too stupid to know that the guy in the picture Picard was looking at was him. Unless he looked exactly like Tom Hardy looked like in the rest of the movie. Which meant having a bald head. The powers that be thinking their audience is stupid was a common occurrence with all the TNG films.

    Indeed.
     
  14. blockaderunner

    blockaderunner Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2001
    Location:
    Seattle, Washington, USA
    THERE'S A 70 YEAR OLD MAN DOING A DUKES OF HAZZARD JUMP INTO A SHUTTLE. That's all that's needed to say as to why this film is a disappointment. I'll say it again.

    THERE'S A 70 YEAR OLD MAN DOING A DUKES OF HAZZARD JUMP INTO A SHUTTLE

    There have been many who have tried to defend this POS while overlooking that
    THERE'S A 70 YEAR OLD MAN DOING A DUKES OF HAZZARD JUMP INTO A SHUTTLE

    Oh it's a fun popcorn flick
    THERE'S A 70 YEAR OLD MAN DOING A DUKES OF HAZZARD JUMP INTO A SHUTTLE

    It's a loving homage to TWOK
    THERE'S A 70 YEAR OLD MAN DOING A DUKES OF HAZZARD JUMP INTO A SHUTTLE

    It's dark and mysterious
    THERE'S A 70 YEAR OLD MAN DOING A DUKES OF HAZZARD JUMP INTO A SHUTTLE

    It's the final hurrah of the TNG
    THERE'S A 70 YEAR OLD MAN DOING A DUKES OF HAZZARD JUMP INTO A SHUTTLE

    You should lighten up, blockaderunner.
    THERE'S A 70 YEAR OLD MAN DOING A DUKES OF HAZZARD JUMP INTO A SHUTTLE

    The Next Generation franchise not only jumped the shark,
    THERE'S A 70 YEAR OLD MAN DOING A DUKES OF HAZZARD JUMP INTO A SHUTTLE

    Everything during the latter days of the B&B regime can be summed up in one scene.
    THERE'S A 70 YEAR OLD MAN DOING A DUKES OF HAZZARD JUMP INTO A SHUTTLE
     
  15. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2005
    Location:
    Los Angeles, California
    Picard's car chase is more believable (in a physical sense) than Riker's fisticuffs in the magical Enterprise abyss. Of course, in the Star Trek universe, it's rather stupid. Abrams' movie got away with about as much of a car chase as you can get without defying logic.
     
  16. Sindatur

    Sindatur The Grey Owl Wizard Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2011
    Location:
    Sacramento, CA
    Say what? What is this even supposed to mean? :confused:
     
  17. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2002
    Location:
    Montgomery County, State of Maryland
    The biggest problem with NEM is that it is dramatically arbitrary. Why is Picard goofing off in a car in the desert without checking to make sure the local sentient species wouldn't be able t find them? He feels like it. Why did Soong build another android like Data and not tell anyone? 'Cos. Why is Shinzon so fixated on Earth that he wants to destroy it even though the homeworld of the people who actually abused him and oppressed him was Romulus? Because Humans.

    When characters make choices whose motivations feel unreal or incompatible with what we know of their personalities, that's a major problem.

    The other issues are all very minor compared to that.
     
  18. -Brett-

    -Brett- Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2001
    After ten years, I would have thought that Nemesis fans (all six of them) would just accept that most people who saw it disliked it and stop making threads like this one.
     
  19. MrJ

    MrJ Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2011
    Location:
    Canada
  20. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2012
    Location:
    Shangri-La
    I nominate this for the most annoying post ever.