Why is Firefly's Cancellation So Unforgiveable?

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Andonagio, Sep 18, 2009.

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  1. Lindley

    Lindley Moderator with a Soul Moderator

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    That's misleading. Some of those threads are very long, and if the word "Firefly" was mentioned *anywhere* in them even once, they'll show up in that list regardless of what the latest activity was about.

    But even if there were that much discussion, so what? The fact that we still have stuff to talk about after all this time just answers the question in this thread's OP. It's not something we're going to apologize for.
     
  2. the Dagman

    the Dagman Commodore Commodore

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    And I wasn't asking for one.

    I was just making my point that you people never shut up about the show. The fact that it may have been mentioned only once in each of those threads disproves my point how? In fact, that just makes it worse! In that you fans feel the need to interject some mention of that show that many times in a short period, even in subjects totally unrelated to the show, only strengthens my point.
     
  3. OmahaStar

    OmahaStar Disrespectful of his betters Admiral

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    Dude, seriously, what's your problem? There are tens of thousands of posts on this message board. There are, by your count, exactly 28 threads devoted to a specific show. So fucking what?

    There are also threads devoted to Babylon 5, Doctor Who, Stargate, BSG, M*A*S*H, CSI, Family Guy, and a lot of other shows.

    If you don't like a subject, don't click on it. No one in the world is forcing you to see "Oh, another XXX thread" and click on it. Take a chill pill, mature yourself a little, and move the fuck on.
     
  4. Deckerd

    Deckerd Fleet Arse Premium Member

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    There's someone here who absolutely cannot shut up about it that's for sure.
     
  5. cultcross

    cultcross The truth is precisely the opposite Moderator

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    Some shows have whole fora dedicated to them. I wish the fans of those woudl shut up. And this 'Star Trek' show takes up half the front page. Jeez, shut up about your cancelled shows already.
     
  6. Lindley

    Lindley Moderator with a Soul Moderator

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    Frankly I'm a little surprised that someone with a Doctor Who avatar would have such a problem with it. Considering that Doctor Who shares a lot of the same style as Joss Whedon's stuff. I mean, the parallels aren't as obvious with Firefly, but Buffy and Who take a very similar approach to mixing humor, serious story, character stuff, and cheese.
     
  7. Deckerd

    Deckerd Fleet Arse Premium Member

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    mmmmmmmmm cheese
     
  8. bigdaddy

    bigdaddy Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'm more pissed off that they canceled Wonderfalls.
     
  9. the Dagman

    the Dagman Commodore Commodore

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    Look, I could really give a shit about the entire subject. Lindley pulled that "two threads in the last month" line that was so laughably wrong that I was able to disprove it by a two second search. And having done that you come in claiming I need to chill (why? I am laughing at all of you! I couldn't be more chilled right now if I was high on pot) and mature myself? :guffaw:

    Oh, and that was 28 threads in the last 24 hours. Not 28 total threads, btw. And as I said in the post you didn't entirely quote, I almost never poke my head into one of these threads. Search my posts, I dare you. Go on. I have nothing to hide. Tell me where I have been in a Firefly thread recently. I cannot even remember the last time myself, so I will go search too just out of curiosity.
     
  10. Lindley

    Lindley Moderator with a Soul Moderator

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    ^That's a huge spin of the results too, though. You say "28 threads in the last 24 hours" as if they've all been discussing Firefly that time, which they obviously haven't.

    I just did play around with search a bit. There have been 12 threads with "Firefly" in the title in all of 2009. Of the remaining threads on the first page of "Search entire post" results, most of them are subjects where it's perfectly reasonable for it to come up, and/or really long threads where it's not unreasonable to suppose it may have been mentioned at some point. The remaining threads I'll grant I'm curious how it came up (not really sure how it's relevant to Karl Urban's hair color).
     
  11. the Dagman

    the Dagman Commodore Commodore

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    Yes, I shorthanded the description a bit there. As I stated earlier, it is 28 threads active in the last 24 hours. And I addressed the rest of your point in this post:

    Oh, and btw, I searched all the threads I have posted in. Well, the last 200 at least. But that goes back to March of this year. And this is the only thread about Firefly I have posted in in all that time. I did post in the thread about if you think Whedon is overrated, which I agreed he is. And I also said good for him for getting his foot into Hollywood and we should all be so lucky. But that is it. So it isn't like I am hounding you fans on this. I am merely stating an observation and making a point.

    And your point saying Firefly is like Doctor Who? No. It's not. I have been watching Who since the 70s and it is totally different. At least in my opinion.

    Anyways, my point is made. I will drop the bone and pull my head out of the fence now. Carry on, you incessant Browncoats. :beer:

    (eta: to the snarks about posting about star trek: Those forums still exist? I haven't posted or even looked at them in years. Plus, wasn't there a recent movie about that that has yet to be released on DVD? I haven't seen it but that may be a bit more timely than talking about a show that has been dead for years, that has no hope of ever returning, and doesn't have a forum dedicated to it like so many of those other shows mentioned. Just sayin'...)
     
  12. Lindley

    Lindley Moderator with a Soul Moderator

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    No, Firefly isn't much like Doctor Who. Not directly. But Russel T Davies' style is clearly influenced by Joss Whedon's style. And that leads to similar conceits in their respective shows. Both are willing to put up with a bit of implausibility if it serves the characters, certainly.

    The stylistic parallels between Buffy and Davies' Who are notable, but even more obvious is the correlation between Angel and Torchwood. Despite Torchwood feeling rather juvenile all too often, the basic setup is pretty darn similar to Angel in many ways.

    Both are about a small team fighting (aliens/demons) led by a brooding immortal guy who stands on rooftops and wears big black coats. And that's just the most obvious similarity.

    Perhaps Torchwood will have a law firm as their arch-enemy next season....

    Same here unless there's a thread on the front page that catches my eye. Even that is pretty rare.

    You should, good movie.

    I don't think Firefly/Serenity is at all likely to come back, at least not on the screen. But never say never, especially in this age when remakes are apparently in vogue.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2009
  13. stonester1

    stonester1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Actually, there was no comparison to Firefly. There was more of a comparison to Whedon's works and Who, specifically new Who and Buffy.

    But careless, inexact interpretations are the basis of your "debate", I see.
     
  14. Sakrysta

    Sakrysta Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Oh brother. It's like a train wreck. I know better, but I can't look away.

    First, to answer the OP's question, Firefly fandom was one of those phenomena that just seems to develop a life of its own. Those who loved it REALLY loved it. It hit at a time when online fandom was just starting to realize its potential - that we had tools at our disposal to help fight for a show we really loved. And love for the show fostered a camraderie that many of us had never experienced to that degree before. We all pretty much felt like the new Trekkers, only intensified, because we didn't have to wait for fanzines or conventions to get together with other fans and gush about what we loved.

    As to why the cancellation was unforgiveable, while I think Firefly's popularity does have a lot to do with it, I also think its cancellation was just the straw that broke the camel's back. For years Fox had been cancelling genre programming left and right - shows that people had grown attached to in much the same way as Firefly. And a lot of Firefly fans also loved those shows, and started talking about it, and well, it just grew into a huge antipathy for Fox and its programming choices. We also had Joss online giving us details about how frustrated he and the other producers were with how Fox was treating the show. Joss can be quite the flames-fanner when he cares about something, and he loved Firefly with every breath that was in him.

    As to why the word Firefly shows up all over the board, the simple answer is that people are here to talk about what they like. Apparently, a lot of the people who like Star Trek enough to join a message board community also like Firefly enough to mention it on occasion in their conversations. As much as the Dagman wishes people would shut up about Firefly, I wish people who didn't like the show would stop accusing fans of some imagined rabid fixation. We talk about what we enjoy. If you don't enjoy Firefly, go find something you do enjoy and talk about that. I promise, I won't do any searches on your favorite show and accuse you of obsession. :techman:
     
  15. Forbin

    Forbin Admiral Admiral

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    I said out, dammit!
    For me it was the lost potential. I liked those characters, I liked the universe they inhabited, I liked the originality of the concept, and I was curious about some of the plot threads being set up. Then POOF! All gone.

    And a lot of the anger rises from Fox having done exactly the same damn thing over and over in the past:
    Space: Above and Beyond
    Dark Angel
    Alien Nation
    Strange Luck
    The Adventures of Brisco County Jr.
    M.A.N.T.I.S
    VR.5
    Roar
    Strange Luck
    Freakylinks
    Night Visions
    The Lone Gumen
    The Visitor
    Kindred: The Embraced
    John Doe
    Tru Calling
    Alien Nation
    Greg the Bunny
    Lone Gunmen
    Millenium
    Sliders
    and more...

    It continues to confuse me why Fox would even order a genre program any more, or why a producer would want Fox to buy his show.
     
  16. BenRoethig

    BenRoethig Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    For me, it was just too interesting to be canceled. I loved the premise and the characters.
     
  17. Temis the Vorta

    Temis the Vorta Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I don't see how Fox's handling of the show was strikingly worse than other travesties I could name. The difference is that people liked the show more than they like most cancellation victims; or there are more Browncoats here than fans of, say, Pushing Daisies.
     
  18. Lindley

    Lindley Moderator with a Soul Moderator

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    PD was a great loss as well. But I was more prepared for that one, since the writing had been on the wall for quite a while.
     
  19. Temis the Vorta

    Temis the Vorta Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    That's true. We were lucky to get a second season at all.

    It got the same support as other shows - initial marketing push, then it's sink or swim time. 2/3rds of new shows die in the first season (usually very quickly), so I don't see Firefly's case as being strikingly different from average.

    The shows that get big network support are the ones that take off like a rocket. Networks throw marketing money after successes, not failure, on the very valid assumption that a dollar spent on a success will yeild better return on investment than a dollar spent on a struggling show. Since they have dozens of replacement shows in development at any time, it makes no economic sense to be sentimental about any of em.

    Networks are like mother snakes; they lay a clutch of eggs and slither off, secure in the knowledge that some of their offspring will survive and unconcerned about the fact that the majority will get eaten.
     
  20. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    It's a whole entitlement mindset: We're the fans, we pay the bills, you OWE US!

    In many ways I blame 'Trek for starting this with TOS, and then feeding into it over the years with the whole "The fans saved the show!". It's infected-- yeah, I think that's a good word for it-- television fandom with a sense of being "owed" and "entitled" to a show, and by-damn-god, it better be their way or they'll be hell to pay.
     
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