Why is DC so far behind Marvel in terms of movies?

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by The Overlord, Apr 9, 2013.

  1. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    How expensive is it to get interns to draw green constructs directly into the film with a green sharpie marker pen?
     
  2. marksound

    marksound Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Overlord, you repeatedly use the phrase "take something interesting in the comics and make it less interesting in the TV show," or variations thereof. To whom exactly is it "less interesting"? Besides yourself, obviously.

    Just curious. ;)
     
  3. The Overlord

    The Overlord Captain Captain

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    Well that's a matter of opinion of course, I can't speak for everyone, just my experience with these shows. If some people think say Smallville is as, if not more interesting as the comics, good on them, there is lots of people who don't think that. This thread is about opinions, I can't objectively measure what makes something more interesting then something else, that is impossible, I can only express my opinion on the subject.

    So what you want me to say, of course is this is my opinion, that's the point. But have all the changes made in TV versions of the comics have been for the better? Is there not a lot of room for debate on which changes worked and which ones didn't?
     
  4. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    None of them. That is the whole point -- that there are too many differences among different shows to assume you can generalize from any single example.

    See, you're making the exact same mistake right there. It was successful by The CW's standards because The CW is a tiny network. By any other broadcast network's standards, its ratings would've guaranteed its failure. This is why you can't generalize. The networks are not identical and interchangeable. The budgets, the standards of success, the level of competition, they're different for each network, for each timeslot, for each show. There is no universal formula -- that's what I've been trying to explain to you. Each situation is different.


    Again you're resorting to lazy stereotypes and false generalizations. Some shows are more faithful to the source than others; some movies are more faithful to the source than others. It's case by case. If you can't recognize that, you'll never get a clue.
     
  5. The Overlord

    The Overlord Captain Captain

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    Sure, but you can always point to individual examples to point out trends in TV and movies and from my perspective some of these trends hold true, like some of the corner cutting and taking more liberities with the source material found in the TV series. Since I have not seen a live action super hero show that has wowed me, what can I take from that experience with them?

    Even some of the super hero TV series that were original content and were on networks with bigger budgets, were still awful: Heroes after the first season, the Cape, No Ordinary Family.

    There is only so many times one can get burned before one gets cynical about the whole idea. Its kinda like video games and movie adaption, there has never been a good one, so when one announced, you get cynical about the whole idea.

    Maybe with Arrow and the new SHIELD this might turn around, but there is still ways to go.

    I actually want to like live action super hero TV shows, but the shows often make it really hard for me to like them.


    Sure I am just saying I have not seen a TV series that has really impressed me the way some of the movies have. Some of the movies are really bad, but some are really good and I have not seen a really a good live action super hero TV show.

    I don't think of any shows you mentioned as really great TV. That is just my opinion, but that is the one I am sticking with.
     
  6. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

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    I don't really see where the stuff we see in the comics would be that much harder to do than what shows like Fringe, Once Upon a Time do, or Defiance appears to be doing on a regular basis. What exactly is it about superhero powers that is so much harder to do than all of the tech, powers, or creatures on Fringe, the magic or CGI characters and creatures on OUAT, or the aliens and new Earth environments on Defiance.
     
  7. theenglish

    theenglish Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I don't think it is really about showing super powers that is the difficulty, but rather the frequency of the effects shots. Any super-hero show would have to be drama based rather than action based as the effects shots would be limited by the budget.

    But creative writers should be able to handle this. Some of the best Trek episodes ever, were bottle episodes with extremely limited effects. It forced the writers to step up their game and not be able to rely on the wow factor.
     
  8. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Commodore Commodore

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    Incorrect across the board. Dozier's Batman was a very expensive series to produce, as an entire comic world had to be built with more than surplus computer consoles. Dozier (and ABC) wanted to take full advantage of the then-sales gimmick of color TV, while realizing that the only way to make the series appear to be a comic leaping out of the page was to spend money where it mattered.

    From the hero (& villain) costumes, the gadgets, vehicles, and celebriity guest stars (who were not going to appear on some low rent series), the series was one of the most fully realized version of a comic ever produced, and to this day, few have come as close (in appearance) as this show to its era of comics.
     
  9. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Exactly. The point is not to duplicate, but to adapt -- to take the idea of superheroes but tell the stories in a different way, one that's tailored for live-action TV. That means focusing more on ideas and characters rather than action and spectacle, but TV science fiction and fantasy have been doing that successfully for generations.
     
  10. Mr. Adventure

    Mr. Adventure Admiral Admiral

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    ^^ I think they need to plan ahead to make it work. I think Smallville and Heroes had moments where they didn't think the endgame through at the beginning and then painted themselves in a corner when it came time to actually deliver a pay off and couldn't deliver. Something ain't right when we were snarkily predicting just how lame the finales were going to be.
     
  11. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    ^Well, the problem with Smallville was that its creators probably never expected it to run more than 5-6 seasons, so as it kept getting renewed over and over again, they had to stretch it out and bring in more and more elements from the comics and from Clark's adult life, thus bringing it closer and closer to being an actual Superman series -- but they still insisted on maintaining the original conceit of being about Clark's life before he became Superman, so it got increasingly labored. I and plenty of other people felt that they should've just renamed it Metropolis and made it a straight-up Superman show, a sequel to Smallville rather than just more seasons thereof, but there was too much resistance from within. (I have the impression that Welling refused to wear the tights, which is reinforced by the fact that we never got a full shot of him in costume even in the series finale.)
     
  12. Savage Dragon

    Savage Dragon TheSeeker Premium Member

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    It's a shame. I think renaming it Metropolis and having new stories with him as Superman would have been a good route to go.
     
  13. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    ^Well, in effect that's what they were doing in the last 2-3 seasons. Clark was an active costumed superhero leading a community of heroes, and he worked at the Daily Planet with Lois Lane. The fact that he wasn't using the familiar name and costume and ran places rather than flying was rather a superficial difference, which is why it was so silly that they didn't just go ahead and make those changes.
     
  14. Dr.H

    Dr.H Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I used to like Smallvile even though it was just Dawson Creek meets Superman, but I was kinda expecting and hoping they explore the prospect of realistic Superman, a grounded version of the character stripped away from most of the fanciful elements of his print versions. Sadly, even though it was a bold new take on the character it still retained the comic book elements. The show could be really corny, cheesy and overly melodramatic and actually I think there were moments in which they take a bit more effort to help me suspend my disbelief, but there was some good moments in there. Oh well, Man of Steel coming out this summer should fill that void and fulfill my wish for a real world Superman.

    Anyone read the story Superman:Secret Identity?
     
  15. Hartzilla2007

    Hartzilla2007 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Well the most recent Man of Steel trailer makes me think DC might be on the way back to being top dog in the movies.
     
  16. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

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    Well, they might be improving, but I don't know if just the Dark Knight movies and this will be enough to dethrone Marvel quite yet. But it could be a step in the right direction at least.
     
  17. bigdaddy

    bigdaddy Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The creators of Smallville had no clue what they were doing and only enough story for 2-3 seasons, at best. Thankfully they left the show and it became a lot better with more comic references in it.

    They should have continued it and just made it a Justice League show. But I guess Arrow is doing great on it's own and the JL movie, so it would be over kill.
     
  18. Corwwyn

    Corwwyn Vice Admiral Admiral

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    More than that, Marvel doesn't just say it has a plan (and then proceed to pull something cockamamey out of it's ass later), it really does/did have one from the get-go, and even better, a really good one.
     
  19. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Bendis and a couple others can lay put 5 year plans and stick to them.

    That's because these are very talented writers, not because the Editors are working from scope, but that they have to get out of the way of these "artists" and if this process could work for any writer, there'd still have to be a massive amount of deserved faith in the writers who are asked to pitch a 5 or 10 year plan, who couldn't possibly follow through, and get cancelled after 7 issues.

    You don't go to war with the army you want, you go to war with the army you got.

    DC has Geoff Johns.

    His Green lantern Story has been running for 10 years and it's quite possible that he ignored completely the New 52. He was unphased. Fuck you New 52, I'm busy, I'm in the middle of something IMPORTANT...

    Geoff Johns' editors must feel like a pussies.

    Are you a lion tamer?

    No sir, I'm a pussy.
     
  20. Corwwyn

    Corwwyn Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Pre-empting, be it for news reports or sports events or messing around with timeslots has been the bane of potentially (or actually) good SF/Fantasy/etc tv shows finding an audience since forever.