Why doesn't Spock Prime go back in time to save Vulcan?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by EJA, Mar 3, 2010.

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  1. EJA

    EJA Fleet Captain

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    Spock Prime doubtless knows of a number of ways to travel back in time and prevent Nero from embarking on his rampage resulting in the destruction of Vulcan (e.g. slingshot around a star, Guardian of Forever, etc). So why doesn't he do this?:confused:
     
  2. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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    A Doctor told him its a fixed point in time.
     
  3. OneBuckFilms

    OneBuckFilms Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Okay, I'll go over this at it has been gone over a thousand times before:

    - Spock's only ship was the Jellyfish he was in when it was caught in the Black Hole in 2387.
    - He and the Ship were INSTANTLY capture upon his arrival, 25 years after the Narada went through, at which point, he lost any means for time travel.
    - He was dumped on Delta Vega and watched Vulcan destroyed, then encountered Kirk.
    - After he and Kirk meet and exchange information, it was clear that time was not actually linear, but an Alternate Reality, and thus could not be repaired.
     
  4. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Because even if he did, all he'd be doing was creating another timeline where Vulcan wasn't destroyed (and that's if he's even successful...who's to say the Vulcans would even believe him?). But Vulcan will still remain destroyed in the Abramsverse, and Romulus will still be destroyed in the prime universe. Since he's stuck in this timeline and he can't go back to his original timeline, what's the point? He might as well make himself useful where he is, which is exactly what he did.
     
  5. M'Sharak

    M'Sharak Definitely Herbert. Maybe. Moderator

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    In real-world terms: because Harlan Ellison owns the rights to the Guardian and will want Big Money for its use--refer to the lawsuit he filed (13 March, 2009) against CBS/Paramount and the WGA (settled in his favor 23 October, 2009) which has been discussed at great length elsewhere on this board--and also because Roberto Orci has said that there will be no convenient and easily- and precisely-controllable slingshot time-travel.

    Besides, hasn't this topic been done enough times already? You've been here in this forum and you've participated in those threads; is there anything you seriously expect to come of asking the same question one more time which hasn't already been beaten to a bloody pulp more than a dozen times over the last nine months? What's to be gained from Yet Another 'Why Doesn't Spock Travel Back in Time and Just Press that Big Red Reset Button' Thread?
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2010
  6. Shazam!

    Shazam! Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Spock Prime's relatives, friends and associates are fine living it up in the Prime Universe. I doubt he really gives much of a shit about these alternate universe versions.
     
  7. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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    Yeah they don't even look the same! ;)
     
  8. thumbtack

    thumbtack Commodore Commodore

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    I'm sure they miss old Spock at least a little bit. Granted, he's slowed down some, but his human half always ensured he was the life of the party (by Vulcan standards).
     
  9. EJA

    EJA Fleet Captain

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    That's if the prime universe is still around, which I still find highly debatable.
     
  10. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The Prime Universe? If we've settled on the many worlds theory the 'Prime Universe' vanished after Yesterday's Enterprise... and a different universe has been created almost every time they've done a 'reset' time travel story. It might be arguable that Time's Arrow doesn't create a new universe because the time loop appears to be completely closed but I'm not sure that applies often. Taking into account the Butterfly Effect, who can say which universe we're in any more? :confused:
     
  11. iguana_tonante

    iguana_tonante Admiral Admiral

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    Was it Doctor Spock? :p
     
  12. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    ^^I am also wondering Who this Doctor is.;)

    Actually, his family we know of (mother, father, brother) are dead in the Prime Universe.
     
  13. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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    No, an odd chap with a British accent,(which is odd for an alien). He also informed Spock that Earth girls are easy.
     
  14. lawman

    lawman Commander Red Shirt

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    Sorry, that doesn't really add up. That explains why he couldn't act to prevent what we see in the film, but not why he doesn't try to undo it. Logically, as soon as he meets Kirk and realizes what's going on, he should be looking for a way to go back 25 years and prevent the actions by Nero that sent the timeline off onto the tangent in which he finds himself. It's the course he's always followed in the past under similar circumstances.

    That's only if you buy completely into O&K's concept of how time travel works... which Spock wouldn't, given all available evidence of how he's dealt with time disruptions in the past. Otherwise, you're just begging the question of why he's ever labored to undo a time-change. As it stands, if he can see a way to undo the destruction of his home planet and save several billion people (not to mention restore a better childhood for his closest friend), you'd think he'd spare no effort to achieve it, rather than just accepting the new timeline as a fait accompli.
     
  15. OneBuckFilms

    OneBuckFilms Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Since Spock knows of Kirk's altered past, and since he cannot travel back in time (stuck on Delta Vega), it would be obvious to him that things cannot be changed.

    If there was a change that could be corrected, he would have corrected it.

    Yes, I AM assuming the Alternate Reality explanation, since it is:

    a) The writers' intent;
    b) Explained as far as possible with dialog on the Bridge before Kirk was ejected;
    c) Confirmed by Kirk ans Spock remembering very different events.

    The fact that Spock would have done anything to save Vulcan if he could, and that it exists in the future he came from, tells me that he knows he cannot save it.
     
  16. lawman

    lawman Commander Red Shirt

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    The problem with the "writers' intent" explanation is that (A) their theory of how Trek time-travel works is dicta, coming more from interviews than from anything in the film, and (B) it's incompatible with essentially every other Trek time-travel story we've ever seen.

    And since we are talking time travel here, it's kinda beside the point that Spock couldn't travel further back to correct the divergence while he was trapped on Delta Vega. Once he got off it, he certainly had both the knowledge and the means.

    He's currently in a timeline different from the one he originated in: he knows that. But when he and Kirk were standing in front of the Guardian of Forever in "City" and suddenly realized that they were an anomaly in a universe wherein the Federation had never existed, did they say "oh, well, those are the breaks" or go back to undo the change? In "Yesteryear," when he discovers his own life history has been altered, does he leave it be or go back to correct it?

    (Heck, for that matter (it's not Spock, but still relevant to the overall paradigm), in "Yesterday's Enterprise," when Picard is informed by Guinan that "something's wrong" about their timeline after a ship from 20 years prior pops up, even though he remembers every moment of his timeline as legitimate, Picard sends that ship back to correct the divergence.)

    SOP within the Federation, from all available evidence, has always been to assume that there's a single "primary" timeline that can be but shouldn't be altered, and to endeavor to keep it on course.
     
  17. Devon

    Devon Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Probably because he feels he can be a lot more useful in this universe, especially with his efforts as an Ambassador to try to bring peace between the remaining Vulcans and the Romulans at this time (albeit on the very very down low if he's logical about it.) Seeing as he knows of what's about to happen to Romulus in a century and a half, and the knowledge he possesses to possibly stop it then he can show some good intentions this way in this universe. Once his work is done, and he hasn't been hit with Bendi Syndrome (I know I probably spelled that wrong,) then he may consider a return to *some universe.*
     
  18. EJA

    EJA Fleet Captain

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    It's still hugely out of character for Spock, considering how he and his friends reacted to altered timelines in the past. I can't believe he just wouldn't do anything.
     
  19. OneBuckFilms

    OneBuckFilms Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The Writer's explanation is actually not inconsistent with past depicted time travel.

    Truth be told, it shed further light on what these Time Travel stories may have ACTUALLY done.

    Second, the MWI interpretation of Time Travel as depicted in the movie can only be explained so far.

    Also, there are many items that support it, including the scene where uhura states "An Alternate Reality", whereas nothing on screen CONTRADICTS it.

    Therefore, it is the case.

    Yesterday's Enterprise establishes that in THAT alternate reality, the was for the Federation was going badly, and that they would loose.

    Not an SOP, just Picard's thinking at the time.

    Also, MWI could only be proven by observation, and I remember a story about a cat in a box.

    Going BACK in time, you create an Alternate Reality, FORWARD trips do not, so whenever someone has gone back in time, and thus created a new reality, the time traveller sees no sign that a new universe is created. Moving Forward in time is much simpler, since we do that anyway, just maybe not as fast.

    If the Timeline is assumed to be ERASED when the Narada starts changing things, then Spock and the Narada would have to be radically altered by such changes, aka the Grandfather Paradox, and thus events in the movie would be simply impossible.

    Therefore, MWI is the truth left after eliminating the impossible.
     
  20. OneBuckFilms

    OneBuckFilms Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    If Spock believed in a Linear Timeline, the fact that 25 years of irreversible changes have occurred would tell him otherwise.

    Logically, an Alternate Reality is the only logical alternative.

    Therefore, travelling back in time changes nothing, and merely spawns another reality.

    That is assuming he has the opportunity to even do this.
     
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