Why does Enterprise get so much flak?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Enterprise' started by LoneDragon, Mar 24, 2013.

  1. Danger Ace

    Danger Ace Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2013
    Location:
    California
    No one held a gun to the "creative staffs" collective heads and forced them to churn out "Enterprise" episodes like so many tennis shoes from a chinese sweatshop!

    If any or all of the staff were "burnt out" then they had a duty to stepdown rather than grab a paycheck for sub-par work. Really, that has got to be the most poorly thought out line of reasoning one could profer to support their contention that "Enterprise" was "average" Trek.

    "Average" Star Trek was still good and better than most TV shows. "Enterprise" went downhill from a mediocre-at-best first season.

    FYI, this is why I respectfully contend that "Fans of Enterprise" (FOE) have no ability to discern or distinguish a "good" production from a "bad" production. They, IMO, will bark and clap for anything said to be set in the "Star Trek" Universe. They were willing accomplices in Berman & Braga's driving "Star Trek" into the ground and they should be ashamed! ASHAMED!

    Whoa! How's that for venting? Boy, do I feel better. Anyone up for a beer?
    :beer:

    No, it would have been more fondly remembered if those in-charge had "cared for" and "believed in" what they were doing from it's inception.

    I would add that I exclude Manny Cotto from my criticism as I think he really tried to take the shit he was given and make something good out it. When he stepped in, however, "Enterprise's" fate was already a done deal. Even still, he tried. That's what I respect and all I expect.

    If I at all felt Braga (and/or Berman) had "swung for the fences" on this "Enterprise" then whether it succeeded or failed I would have applauded. They didn't even pretend to try. They knew what to say. They knew how to hype fan interest. But when it came to the nuts-and-bolts of its production, my impression, is that neither one cared. And it showed (at least to those not wearing glasses of the rose-colored variety).
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2013
  2. Danger Ace

    Danger Ace Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2013
    Location:
    California
    Then if the environment makes it impossible to turn out quality product then you resign on principle in protest. You make stand for your professional reputation, integrity and credibility if for no other reason. If you can't solve the problem then at least refuse to be part of the problem. JESUS, PEOPLE! Your literally coming up with reasons why it is okay to "screw the pooch." That UPN stuff is CYA bullsh*t. B&B were, "Yes, sir!" and "How high, sir?" all the way.
     
  3. bullethead

    bullethead Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2008
    Given what I've seen on Robert Hewitt Wolfe's Twitter, the creative staff did have a gun to their head: the fact that there was no guarantee they could get another job. If one of the main guys who wrote MASH had to keep pitching shows up until he died, it just goes to show that the TV business is a lot harder than most people think it is.

    Besides, given what recent interviews with Berman and Braga revealed, like the exec that wanted hot bands to show up on the NX-01, I think Berman and Braga at least managed to keep UPN from making things worse. There's no guarantee that someone else wouldn't have knuckled under to UPN's stupid demands or been too inflexible about the show and gotten replaced with someone who'd do whatever the suits wanted.
     
  4. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2001
    Pretty much, yeah. The Trek folks also wanted to do a show considerably different than the one that UPN and Paramount wanted.

    Enterprise was more entertaining than Trek had managed since around 1995, so it's all good. The only season that was really patchy was the second. As far as this "campaign" to get a new version of it out of the Netflix ratings - that's extraordinarily unlikely, but I'd pay money to see it. I can't say that for most of the Trek spinoffs.
     
  5. Relayer1

    Relayer1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2011
    Location:
    The Black Country, England
    Which explains a large part of my problems with both Enterprise and Voyager...
     
  6. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    Oh I drove it into the ground all right with my FOE adoration, hell I did more than that I DROVE IT STRAIGHT INTO JJ'S ARMS.

    And I feel no shame. No shame at all. Just a kind of damp fluttering as May approaches..
     
  7. Danger Ace

    Danger Ace Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2013
    Location:
    California
    Pretty much, no. That is all CYA excuse making. Don't demean yourself by being an apologist. Berman & Braga, being the top-dogs on "Enterprise" were responsible for its production and therefore the buck stops with them.

    I say you are being an apologist because your arguement is not that "Enterprise" was a great and "top-notch" production worthy only of high praise, but rather admitting it was heavily flawed but just not their fault. It was Paramounts fault. It was UPN's fault. It was raining. It was a Wednesday. It was blah, blah, blah .... IT WAS THEIR RESPONSIBILTY. ITS FAILURE WAS THEIR FAILURE. Simple as that.

    For you, perhaps, but I would contend that relatively few others would agree. More folks watched DS9 and Voyager than "Enterprise" by a significant margin. I would even go so far as to say many here only pay lip service to holding Ent in high regard and are more interested in appearing counter-culture. My opinion.
     
  8. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2001
    :lol:

    Is anyone taking the latest provocateur seriously? ;)
     
  9. lurok

    lurok Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2011
    Location:
    Lost in the EU expanse with a nice cup of tea
    No. Bored.
     
  10. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    Dude, that's like my fucking career!
     
  11. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    Location:
    Melakon's grave
    You work in a Complaint Department? Now called Customer Service, I guess.
     
  12. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2001
    Location:
    Hotel Transylvania
  13. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    I do NOT want to listen to that speech. Is that the Gazelle speech?

    Don't make me press that little triangle Dream.
     
  14. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    Okay I watched it. It wasn't the gazelle speech.

    I actually teared up a bit. Made me want to watch ENT again. Kind of had some Kirk moments there.
     
  15. Skywalker

    Skywalker Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2005
    Yeah, not sure what you were going for there, Dream. That was one of Archer's better speeches.
     
  16. Danger Ace

    Danger Ace Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2013
    Location:
    California
    Oh.

    So, so terribly sorry.

    How embarrassing of me.

    Well then.

    Ahem!

    I'm quite sure you are probably pretty good at it then. Please, by all means, carry-on. :techman:
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2013
  17. Danger Ace

    Danger Ace Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2013
    Location:
    California
    Oh come off it. I have been absolutely plain about being somewhat over-the-topish in style while remaining valid and on-point in substance. So to quote the film "Stripes," "Lighten up, Francis." ;)
     
  18. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    Location:
    Melakon's grave
    Does that include your personal attacks, like suggesting a forum member drinks milk after the expiration date?
     
  19. Danger Ace

    Danger Ace Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2013
    Location:
    California
    No attack. A supposition within a quip. A gentle attempt to rationalize and understand why someone would seek to elevate "Enterprise" so far beyond and above its merits or defend its makers beyond all reason. No attack in that. :)
     
  20. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    Location:
    Melakon's grave
    You really need to study how many corporations have a policy of saying "we're sorry if anyone was offended by what we said", rather than apologizing for what they actually said in the first place.