Discussion in 'Voyager' started by Civ001, Jul 21, 2011.
They'd fit right in with Ramadan
This is just arguing for the sake of argument and I'm not going to to clutter up this thread doing so.
I've explained myself.
You have the choice to agree, disagree or be indifferent to it.
^ I don't see how referencing your own statements and questioning their implications qualifies as "arguing for the sake of argument", unless you want to accuse yourself of the same thing and that I've inadvertently fallen into your trap.
I also don't see how repeating yourself almost verbatim qualifies as "explaining yourself", but I suppose you have the choice to agree, disagree or be indifferent to that.
Give it a rest.
I don't care about soapboxes. I could care less about the recent, off-topic rant going on in this thread or others like it.
I just want to say the Borg were not weakened by VOYager. They did, however, show the Queen more than perhaps they should have. But no, VOYager did NOt weaken or ruin the Borg as a viable threat to the Federation. No more than TNG did.
yes Matt you are the Voice of reason i agree
If they were so weakened and ruined why have they eaten half the Alpha quadrant in the post series novels, LOL.
the novels are not canon,anyway they didn't seem like the strongest enemies even in TNG.tho they are an amazing well written villains.the threat of the Borg was countered by the Fed like when shelby announces new weapons and defenses vs the Borg in BOBW to be added to the fleet in 2 years...or the DEFIANT project as an anti-Borg ship etc...many new ships were designed with combat ability in mind to counter the Dominion/borg Threats like The Prometheus/Sovereign/Intrepid... the FED learned from its previous mistakes at wolf 359.
And yet they still got their butts kicked in Star Trek: First Contact before Picard turned up to save the day.
One thing the Borg have going for them is sheer numbers to overwhelm a whole planet. They don't need to precisely destroy anything as destruction is not their agenda. If they rely on numbers they will be weaker when they don't have those numbers available. The Borg "fleet" seen in VOY was very impressive, but these numbers are in the DQ not the AQ. Yet.
The Borg could overwhelm the entire Federation if they wanted to.
The writers should have emphasized that the Collective was 'toying' with the Feds constantly, using them to promote technologies against them, and could have staged the entire Endgame fiasco as a ploy to determine just what methods humanity uses and the process behind those methods (or way of thinking so they can better adapt).
Essentially use them as lab-rats of sorts.
Eliminate the queen too.
The Borg send one Cube out into the unknown like a seed knowing that one cube with a bit of luck can bring 'civilization" to large fraction of the acceptable/useful beings in the galaxy.
What we saw in the beginning of Scorpion was an exodus.
In one battle half way through the 2nd episode, 8472 had destroyed eight planets, three hundred twelve vessels disabled, four million, six hundred twenty-one Borg... And that probably only took a few 8472 moments.
8472 had been at this for over a year.
What we were seeing were not fleets per say but the remnants of planets and cities that broke off and feared complete destruction, as well as obviously defensive fleets, but really if a planet can be turned into a few million guns, why do they need ships?
A good point. I always wondered why TNG only ever used one Borg cube in their stories, even in the First Contact feature. At least Voyager tried something different with multiple cubes and so on making an appearance at various points.
Indeed wish people accepted that with open arms,instead they criticize everything.
I think the whole "one cube" thing only completely stopped making sense once we saw just how many cubes the collective actually has in "Scorpion".
well in ''Dark Frontier'' where the Queen says she has no Interest in a direct assault on earth she was gonna infect the population with nano probe viruses instead,assimilation would be gradual. meaning the cubes stay in DQ
Voyager didn't weaken The Borg, it was The Borg who weakened Voyager.
Agreed. It was another Catch-22 for VOY.
If they would have only used one cube, they would have been grilled for being unoriginal, denying the audience something new, and just copying TNG.
Perhaps the real problem was the concept of the Queen herself. That changed the Borg more than the quantity of cubes. It muddied the waters and no one ever quite knew the exact boundaries of the Queen's existence because First Contact didn't really explain it.
Instead of being a unique faceless villain, the Borg were normalized in a way. VOY didn't make that change; it was forced to react to it.
After "Scorpion," I wish the show's main villain would have been 8472.
They changed shape.
They could be anyone.
How best to keep tabs on Voyager by running across them every week pretending to be another pack of assholes or dimwits each week to teach the humans a different moral fable to edge them away from any future alliance with the borg.
For the last four years Voyager was paddling about in a Fishbowl made by 8472.
Separate names with a comma.